kirsten@utpsych.uucp (Kirsten Krismer) (02/07/89)
People who are interested in the discussions going on around campus, and now in the off-campus media because of Rushton, about how to protect various groups from hateful or violent statements in the press while protecting academic freedom, may wish to attend the University Affairs Board Meeting open to the public 4 pm, Tues the 7th Sincoe Hall council chamber The UA Board will be discussing how to implement a policy to resolve this problem. People who don't know what the fuss is about may want to check out The Underground Jan 31 issue Daryl McDowell's column attacks Blacks as bigots with an agenda of violence. McDowell was recently impeached for writing a sexist and homophobic article but apparently there is no U of T mechanism to prevent this guy from airing his racism and other forms of bigotry publicly.
elf@dgp.toronto.edu (Eugene Fiume) (02/09/89)
In article <1989Feb7.022304.16298@utpsych.uucp> kirsten@utpsych.uucp (Kirsten Krismer) writes: >Daryl McDowell's column attacks Blacks as bigots with an >agenda of violence. McDowell was recently impeached for >writing a sexist and homophobic article but apparently there >is no U of T mechanism to prevent this guy from airing his >racism and other forms of bigotry publicly. There is also apparently no mechanism preventing you from airing these views in an inappropriate forum. I suppose your definition of "medium" (cf. subject line) does not include usenet. -- Eugene Fiume Dynamic Graphics Project University of Toronto elf@dgp.toronto.edu
parsons@csri.toronto.edu ("Darrell J. Parsons") (02/09/89)
In article <8902090918.AA15907@explorer.dgp.toronto.edu> elf@dgp.toronto.edu (Eugene Fiume) writes: >In article <1989Feb7.022304.16298@utpsych.uucp> kirsten@utpsych.uucp (Kirsten Krismer) writes: >>Daryl McDowell's column attacks Blacks as bigots with an >>agenda of violence. McDowell was recently impeached for >>writing a sexist and homophobic article but apparently there >>is no U of T mechanism to prevent this guy from airing his >>racism and other forms of bigotry publicly. > >There is also apparently no mechanism preventing you from >airing these views in an inappropriate forum. I suppose >your definition of "medium" (cf. subject line) does not >include usenet. >-- >Eugene Fiume I seem to miss Mr Fiume's point. Kirsten Krismer used this group to announce (too late for me) an important meeting and give some background. If he is misrepresenting the situation re Daryl McDowell it would be clearer if Mr Fiume would say so. Otherwise, the issue of "tenure", "academic freedom", "freedom of speech", and the use of some or all of these to promote bogus racist theories seem to be linked to Kirsten Krismer's posting. I, for one, can think of nothing more appropriate for this medium, particularly at this time. If racist/bigoted views are being presented in media associated with this University then the University community should feel free and obliged to discuss it in any available medium. I intend no disrespect of Mr Fiume and would welcome any correction related to my misunderstanding his views or the facts. Darrell J Parsons Department of Computer Science parsons@csri.toronto.edu
elf@dgp.toronto.edu (Eugene Fiume) (02/10/89)
In article <8902091916.AA19180@dundas.csri.toronto.edu> parsons@csri.toronto.edu ("Darrell J. Parsons") writes: > >I seem to miss Mr Fiume's point. Kirsten Krismer used this group >to announce (too late for me) an important meeting and give some >background. If he is misrepresenting the situation re Daryl >McDowell it would be clearer if Mr Fiume would say so. Otherwise, >the issue of "tenure", "academic freedom", "freedom of speech", >and the use of some or all of these to promote bogus racist theories >seem to be linked to Kirsten Krismer's posting. I, for one, can >think of nothing more appropriate for this medium, particularly at >this time. If racist/bigoted views are being presented in media >associated with this University then the University community should >feel free and obliged to discuss it in any available medium. I >intend no disrespect of Mr Fiume and would welcome any correction >related to my misunderstanding his views or the facts. Please observe that I only quoted the bottom fragment of Ms. Krismer's article. I have no objection to posting meeting announcements and so forth, but I do object to the posting of statements that can easily be interpreted as being inflammatory. Since I don't know anything about this McDowell person, and I've never read the Underground, my interpretation of the quoted passage is that I'm being told to shut some guy up because of some alleged but unsubstantiated misconduct. My posting was an unsuccessful attempt to point out that just as Krismer objects to the inflammatory writing of McDowell, a devil's advocate could apply the same standard to Krismer's writing. The problem is that "inflammation" is in the eye of the beholder, and this should be taken into account, particularly in an electronic newsgroup that reaches many people who, like myself, are ignorant of the issue at hand. I perfectly agree that that the Rushton and McDowell issue, and the limits of "academic freedom" and "freedom of speech" and all that, should be discussed. But this is not the forum. Real face-to-face discussions and meetings and debates are the appropriate forum (as in fact was reasonably suggested in the first part of Krismer's posting). Discuss this through this forum and all you'll get is an unproductive flame war, as anyone experienced with usenet knows. -- Eugene Fiume Dynamic Graphics Project University of Toronto elf@dgp.toronto.edu
flaps@dgp.toronto.edu (Alan J Rosenthal) (02/12/89)
In a recent article, elf@dgp.toronto.edu (Eugene Fiume) writes: >There is also apparently no mechanism preventing you from >airing these views in an inappropriate forum. I suppose >your definition of "medium" (cf. subject line) does not >include usenet. What is inappropriate about ut.general? And according to whom is ut.general part of usenet? In a later article, Eugene accuses Kirsten of being inflammatory, then goes on to call McDowell's Underground articles ``alleged''! (These were published articles! Talking about inflammatory...) Subsequently, he says: >Discuss this through this forum and all you'll get is an unproductive >flame war, as anyone experienced with usenet knows. I think Eugene is starting the flaming, I appreciate Kirsten's posting, and I think ut.general is an appropriate forum for this discussion. People who don't think a certain subject is appropriate for a particular newsgroup shouldn't discuss it there; however, for some reason they usually do (as Eugene is doing). And as anyone experienced with usenet knows, the net bandwidth wasted due to the complaints of the net bandwidth freaks is much higher than the net bandwidth wasted by the people they complain about (again, the current example shows this). ajr