richardt@orstcs.UUCP (richardt) (07/16/85)
[line eater? What line ea... I notice that talking to large, and in some cases unfriendly, electronics companies can be at best moderately diffficult, and at worst impossible. Therefore, I would like to suggest that some form of association be formed that is designed to aid and encourage hobby design. This would range from giving leverage when trying to get databooks and samples to help on projects which woud be difficut for you but someone else could do with their eyes closed. Would people please mail responses to me and we can try to get something going (anybody got brigt ideas on a name? the local one I thought up just doesn't cut it.) orstcs!richardt Is there an Assembly Language programmer in the house?...
richardt@orstcs.UUCP (richardt) (08/02/85)
Okay folks, you asked for it. Here's what I'm aiming at n setting up a
hobbyist organization.
1) Leverage when talking to Electronics companies.
This could run the gammut from making it easier
to acquire databooks to bulk buying discounts.
2) Somebody to talk to (and conspire with) on current
projects. I know that I'm not the only one doing
what I'm doing, so let's get together and do it
faster.
3) A way to teach new hobbyists more. Traditional
College/Professional training methods tend to
be a waste of time (and money) as they rarely
teach what the new people need to know, and take
twice as long to teach it if they do get aroun to
teaching it. This also covers the "Gee, will this
method of interfacing work?" problem. Somebody
else just may have the experience with a piece of
equipment that I know I don't have, and I'm getting
a bit tired of re-inventing the wheel every time I
turn around.
4) If there were some way to may this a large enough group
that it could act as a design subsidizer, it would be
nice. I don't know how we'd finance it, but there
are a number of ideas that I'd be perfectly willing to
(essentially) sell stock in, but not if some venture
capital company is dictating how I do the paperwork.
This would run from actually buying equipment and
(where necessary) computer time, to helping with
patent applications. I know that there are a number
of organizations which do exactly this (act as an
inventor's helper) but, to my knowledge, none of them
has the outlook and knowledge which would make them
useful for someone doing electronic design on the
fringe of mainstream technology. They tend more to
things like a better mousetrap.
That covers the basic goals of the organization. Goals [1], [2], and [3]
can all be achieved simply by getting an organization together. [4] is
a lot more complicated and requires more people.
Goal #1. I consider this to have three basic facets.
1) Getting information, at minimal expense to my non-existent
pocketbook. This also falls into two basic categories,
databooks and special information ("Gee, can I talk to your
design engineers for about 3 hours? I'd like to examine
some of the facets of your new [substitue your favorite
new processor here] processor.")
Databooks are not a moneymaking venture for an electronics
company. They distribut them free to companies who ask for
them and sometimes sell them to the outside world. When they
do sell them, its at outrageous prices (iNTEL databook set ~$160).
Some ways that they could decrease the number of sets sent out,
while increasing the number of us who can use them:
Set up local databook libraries, which have *Complete* databook
sets from all the major manufacturers;
Set up an online databook database. This could be anything
from typing them in --ugh-- to tapping in to their own computer.
The latter seems ideal, but is definitely a pipe dream. What
is feasible is this. Have a few C64s connected to a 50 Meg
hard disk on one end and three modems, all tied into an eight
hundred number or three, and we could have a 24 hour, on-line
listing of any page in any datbook we wanted. This is a fairly
simple process. The C64's each handle one data request at a time.
the databooks are handed to us on 8" disk(s), which we feed into
the database on the hard disk. The set-up cost is a C64 w/2400
baud modem and a 50 meg hard disk, and the sweat to make the
pieces talk to each other. Plus an 8" Shugart drive using CP/M
format disks. Why CP/M? Because all 8" CP/M disks use the same
format. You want to add a new databook? Just get an 8" disk
from the company, or have them download it to the database
directly. They do it internally, why not hand us the info the
same way. If you have to have a solid databook, or need a copy
on hand at all times, we can send you a disk with the info on it,
or we can actually get a real copy to you. I don't know about
you, but I don't really *need* an entire set of everything RCA
ever printed in their semiconductor division. I just want to
know about *that* specific chip. By reading the specs on it
once and sending them to my printer, I can get a hardcopy.
With new processors, the idea is essentially the same. You want
a new 68020 manual? Download a section and print it. Its not
as pretty as the Motorola version, but it serves the purpose.
This might not be feasible now. I now that we could get away
with the local databook library in a lot of places, as long
as its near a copier. And eventually we could have the online
system. We also might be able to get businesses interested in
it, and have them foot the bill. You say the system's getting
too crowded, you can't get to the machine because the modem's
always busy? Add another C64 and modem and 800 number.
2) Bulk buying and pricing. Simple fact of economics -- If I want
10 256K DRAMs and you want 10 and Joe over in the corner want
10, we can get them cheaper if we make it one order.
Buy having enough people, we always know that at least x number
of people will want something.
3) Samples. The companies hand out a lot of samples. I have one
friend who has about 5 68xxx's sitting in his chip drawer.
most of them he doesn't use, never has, and never will. If the
company sends us a sample, they *know* that it will be used
by someone, if not by several someones. We are essentially
helping them do their marketing department's job.
Goal #2: There are essentially 4 potential methods of inter-hobbyist
communication: locally, there's the telephone and the local BBS.
On a national/world scale, there's good old snailmail and
wide area BBS's sucha as UseNet. But what about the people
who can't get on Usenet?, you say. Well, in about a month a new
Bulletin Board program will be going out over the Net. A
Unix Bulletin Board program, which deals with termcaps, security,
and other fun things while giving an outside user (i.e. one
who is not connected with your company or school) UseNet and Mail
access. This program will be running on a Unix machine here
at orstcs, and can be ported on to any other Unix you happen to
have. This program could make UseNet accessable to the users
who normally couldn't get near it. Eventually we hope to interface
the program to the popular FidoNet software.
Goal #3: This is primarily a side effect of communication. By sending out
lists of everyone in your area and what their pet project is, you
can get together on projects, learn about new techniques, and
generally get things done faster.
Goal #4: This is more tricky than the leverage bit. It requires one of
three things to have the money: either noticeably high dues from
all the people in the organization; a lot of people paying lower
dues; or convincing some nice, benevolent corporation that we now
our stuff and are worth backing with a minimum number of strings
attached. Once this got started, it should become self-supporting,
assuming that projects which are partially funded by it pay dividends
back into it. This whole idea means essentially starting a venture
capital company. This prompts the question, Why should *WE* become
venture capitalists? My answer is that we know how things work,
what works fastest, and how to get a solid project done and out the
door fastest. We all know about the accordian bottlenck, documentation
hassles, and the other fun problems that happen during project design.
I plan to accomplish the task of setting up this organization by doing my best
to make sure that as many people find out about it as possible. For example,
while at SOG IV (an excellent hobbyists convention put on by the publishers
of Micro Cornucopia -- Guests of honor were George Morrow and Ezra Shapiro
[Byte West Coast Bureau Chief]) I distributed more than 120 reply forms. These
have already started to come back. I am also leaving messages on bulletin
boards whenever and wherever I have the opportunity. I hope that anyone
reading this will also do the same. For this reason, a copy of the form
which I was handing out at SOG IV is on the end of this message.
As for the actual structure of the organization, I was thinking along the
lines of local chapters, in the same vein as user groups, all of which are
affiliated with the parent non-profit company.
I have one final request. Mail me your comments even if you are not interested
in joining the group. If you are, fill out and email me a copy of the form
at the end. Than you for your time.
Richard S. Threadgill
104 So. 20th #7
Philomath OR 97370
929-3004 #7
hplabs!hp-pcd!orstcs!richardt
"At last, I can see, all too well, where we all soon shall be"
-- Judas Iscariot in 'Jesus Christ Superstar'
[Discalimer: I don't work for anyone, so I'm sure that I'm not their spokesman]
An organization of Hardware Hobbyists is now being formed.
Its goals are:
1) to provide a source of instruction on digital and analog
design techniques;
2) to provide leverage when dealing with elctronics companies;
3) to maintain a series of local databook libraries;
4) if possible, to sponsor electronic projects of interest
to the groups members;
5) to provide a group of people who you can kibbitz with about
your latest project.
If you are interested, fill out and mail the form provided below.
--------------------------------cut here----------------------------------------
[] I am interested in joining a hobbyist organization Mail to:
[] I do not wish to join, but please keep me informed Richard Threadgill
[] my company wishes to become a corporate sponsor 104 So. 20th #7
Philomath OR 97370
Name:_________________________________________________________________
Address:______________________________________________________________
______________________________________________________________
______________________________________________________________
Electronic Address:___________________________________________________
Home Phone: voice: (___) ___-____ x. ____ computer: ___-____ x. ____
Work Phone: voice: (___) ___-____ x. ____ computer: ___-____ x. ____
Suggested Name of Organization:_______________________________________
Comments:_____________________________________________________________
_____________________________________________________________
_____________________________________________________________
------------------------------split---------------------------------------------
An organization of Hardware Hobbyists is now being formed.
Its goals are:
1) to provide a source of instruction on digital and analog
design techniques;
2) to provide leverage when dealing with elctronics companies;
3) to maintain a series of local databook libraries;
4) if possible, to sponsor electronic projects of interest
to the groups members;
5) to provide a group of people who you can kibbitz with about
your latest project.
If you are interested, fill out and mail the form provided below.
--------------------------------cut here----------------------------------------
[] I am interested in joining a hobbyist organization Mail to:
[] I do not wish to join, but please keep me informed Richard Threadgill
[] my company wishes to become a corporate sponsor 104 So. 20th #7
Philomath OR 97370
Name:_________________________________________________________________
Address:______________________________________________________________
______________________________________________________________
______________________________________________________________
Electronic Address:___________________________________________________
Home Phone: voice: (___) ___-____ x. ____ computer: ___-____ x. ____
Work Phone: voice: (___) ___-____ x. ____ computer: ___-____ x. ____
Suggested Name of Organization:_______________________________________
Comments:_____________________________________________________________
_____________________________________________________________
_____________________________________________________________