jm@tekig.UUCP (Jeff Mizener) (11/28/84)
--------
[]
I would like to take exception to a couple of points raised by Paul Given
in his response to Frank Pavelski (drutx!pagiven and scorplex!frank).
1) Paul says that the material and side cut, etc. don't matter. What matters
is whether you like them. I submit that the material, cut, etc. will
affect whether you like your skis because those factors determine how
the ski will handle. I agree that the bottom line is "do you like the ski",
but I don't agree that the other things don't matter.
2) Paul says: "NEVER BUY USED EQUIPMENT". I disagree. Strongly. Especially
if the purchaser in question is a beginner. There is no reason to assume
that a ski may be no good just because it's used. Skis are remarkably tough.
If a ski looks ok on the top and bottom, chances are that it's in good
shape. How do we know this? Well, the top gets banged around each time
you use it, so it's condition is a good indicator of the condition to
the internal structure of the ski. If the top sheet has tiny cracks that
run across the ski near the shovel or tail, then care is urged. However,
compared with the cost of new equipment, used skis can be a real bargain.
Another factor to consider is bindings. Bindings last a long time. They
don't wear out easily. If a ski is a couple of seasons old, not only are
the chances good that the ski's still good, but that the bindings are good
too. A $250 pair of skis and a $100 set of bindings will cost about $150
(depending on condition) a year or two later. This is a big savings.
The best thing to do is take along a friend skilled in such things when
you go used-ski-shopping.
3) Paul sez:
"Always get the top of the line, competition ski in any
of the BIG NAME brands. ... Don't let the fact that you are
an intermediate/beginner skier, sway you into buying less that the
competition version. Those soft, forgiving skis will be good for
one or two days at the outside, before you are ready for something
better. The intermediate versions WILL hold back your progress.
Always get the Slalom version competition ski. Forget Giant Slalom
(GS), or any other version (unless you are in to specialty racing
events). Slalom skis can be designed using side cut, flex pattern,
or both."
Pardon me, but most of that is bullshit. Pure and unadulterated.
Let's take that one point at a time.
a) You can go broke buying the top of the line competition ski.
You can also hurt yourself. Racing skis arr designed for
racing. If you aren't gonna race (or if you don't go real fast
alot) DON'T BY SUPER HOT RACING SKIS. They are designed to be
just marginally stable, so they turn fast. They take a great
deal of effort and an experienced skiier to control. They will
screw up a beginner/intermediate because those people don't have
as fine a control over their bodies (while skiing) as do experts/racers.
I know this from my experience as a ski instructor.
b) Who said that anything but racing skis were "soft, forgiving".
And furthermore, why is this bad for the average skiier interested
in advancing? An unforgiving ski is just that, unforgiving. A little
too much edge and ZAP you're in a turn you hadn't intended to make.
c) Contrary to Paul's assertion, a ski that's too unforgiving will hold
you back more than a ski that's too forgiving. An unforgiving ski
will fustrate you more than anything.
d) WHY, for the god's sake, DO WE ALWAYS HAVE TO BUY THE SLALOM SKI???
Doesn't this depend on the type of terrain that you are planning to
ski? A slalom ski is cut to be less stable than a GS or a Downhill
ski. Why? So it will turn faster! Most intermediates I have known
aren't looking to make a lot of short, fast snap turns. It is
considerably easier to make quick turns on a GS ski than it is to make
a Slalom ski hold a line at high speed. My feeling is that if there
is a choice between an intermediate GS or S ski for an intermediate
skiier, choose the GS ski. Buy a S ski when you take up racing
(which is fun, try it!).
e) A slalom ski is made using BOTH side cut and flex, not one OR the
other.
4) I agree with Paul's comments on bindings. If you get used
skis, go to a ski shop and have the tension set. Better to be a tad
too loose than a tad too tight.
That just about covers it. Comments gladly accepted.
Jeff Mizener / Tektronix Portables ADG / Beaverton OR
{ucbvax,decvax,purdue,uw-beaver,hplabs,allegra,ihnp4,ogcvax}!tektronix!tekadg!jm
ARPA: tekadg!jm.tek@udel-relay CSnet: tekadg!jm@tekfitz@orca.UUCP (Bob Fitzsimmons) (11/29/84)
[]
I'm in agreement with Jeff Mizener on the purchasing of USED ski
equipment. If careful in selecting used equipment one can acquire
high quality equipment at substantial savings, leaving extra dollars
to spend on those outrageously expensive lift tickets.
I usually advice new skiers to purchase good used skis of the forgiving
beginner/intermediate garden variety. I'm in agreement again with
Jeff. High performance skis will only make the learning process more
difficult and frustrating.
My advice is to start with an inexpensive set of equipment, then after
a year or two of skiing upgrade your equipment to higher performance
gear. At this time you'll have a better understanding of ski equipment
and the type of skiing you'd like to do. Purchase a SL or GS depending
on YOUR preference. Be sure to demo the skis first!
Another note: There are a large number of "hybrid" skis available from
all the major manufacturers. These skis combine characteristics of both
SL and GS skis and tend to provide good-to-excellent performance in a
wider variety of conditions than either GS or SL. Most of these skis
also perform very well for "recreational" racing. You won't need a
high performance GS or SL unless you get seriously into racing.
"You can't get hurt in the air!"
- Bob Fitzsimmons, Tektronix, Inc. ECS, Wilsonville, Oregon
uucp: {ucbvax,decvax,chico,pur-ee,ihnss}!teklabs!tekecs!fitz
or {ucbvax,decvax,uw-beaver}!tektronix!tekecs!fitz
CSnet: tekecs!fitz@tek
ARPA: tekecs!fitz.tek@rand-relay lowell@fluke.UUCP (Lowell Skoog) (12/03/84)
I would like to add some comments on ski selection, particularly on the notion
that an intermediate skier should buy top-of-the-line competition skis.
Ski manufacturers and ski technicians look to the top racers to develop more
capable equipment and more efficient techniques. This is certainly justified,
since racers, due to the rigors of training and competition, are the best skiers
in the world. It is reasonable to label competition skis "top of the line".
But you have to consider what these skis are designed for. Alpine racing takes
place on smooth, very well-packed snow. Competition skis perform marvelously
in these conditions. In other conditions however, they are not so good.
In powder snow, slalom skis dive. In moguls, slalom skis ride rough, while
giant slalom skis turn reluctantly. In chunky, semi-packed snow, slalom skis
skitter, giant slalom skis go straight. To say that a competition ski is
best for all conditions is like recommending a Ferrari for four-wheeling.
Skis are tools--to choose the right one, you have to decide what you want to use
it for. If you walk into a ski shop and ask for advice based on your skiing
ability (e.g. "I am an expert") they may steer you toward racing skis. (Racing
skis are macho.) If, on the other hand, you describe your ability and what you
intend to use the ski for, you are more likely to get what you need.
Some manufacturers and ski areas hold "demo days" where you can try out the
latest skis for free. Check into these in your area.
Lowell Skoog (in real life) Lowell Skoog
Professional Ski John Fluke Mfg. Co. Inc.
Instructors of America, NW Everett, Washingtonjans@mako.UUCP (Jan Steinman) (12/06/84)
Lowell Skoog writes: > ...on the notion that an intermediate skier should buy top-of-the-line > competition skis... you have to consider what these skis are designed for. Here, here! (Switch to Nordic, please.) I remember working in a ski shop. We carried the (in)famous Kniessel Running Star klister ski, the ones that take a twelve-ton press to make the bottoms touch. Needless to say, not many sold, most of those sold were returned, so they ended up on sale, very cheap. One day three nuns walked in. We did everything to try to change their mind. The store manager (a devout Catholic) even offered them some nice light-touring skis at cost, which would have put them about $45, still $10 more than the Kneissel liquidation price of $35. I don't imagine those nuns used them more than once. > To say that a competition ski is best for all conditions is like > recommending a Ferrari for four-wheeling. Skis are tools--to choose the > right one, you have to decide what you want to use it for. Very aptly put, and equally applicable to XC. > (Racing skis are macho.) ...and so are telemark skis. Many a person who fancies him/herself a hard- core outdoorsperson asks me about buying telemark equipment. When I find out they actually only climb Mt. Adams every other year, I try to steer them toward the heavy end of light-touring equipment, rather than full-blown telemark stuff, which is heavy and unresponsive for any but it's intended use. XC or downhill, special equipment is for those with lots of money who don't mind having four or five different pair of skis, three pair of poles, etc. Figure out what you do, and go for compromise if you do more than one type of skiing, or commit to having more than one of everything! -- :::::: Jan Steinman Box 1000, MS 61-161 (w)503/685-2843 :::::: :::::: tektronix!tekecs!jans Wilsonville, OR 97070 (h)503/657-7703 ::::::