ronb@tekred.UUCP (Ron Bremer ) (01/29/85)
<> About a month ago I posted a request for opinions on cross country equipment. This is a summary of the replies. For those interested I placed my choice of equipment at the end of this article. >From: tektronix!randyd@orca >Date: Thu, 17 Jan 85 07:59:20 PST > >Carla and I have had Trak no-wax (ralley) skis for a number of years >and been quite happy with them. The best advice is to try before you >buy. The bindings are "Troll" bindings. I would try to get some simple >all-metal bindings, they are easier to repair in the field. >Usually carring an extra bail takes care of most possible problems >(we have never had one break). I am totally un-impressed with >some of the newer all-plastic bindings. > > >From: tektronix!jans@mako >Date: Thu, 17 Jan 85 09:45:58 PST > > I would strongly suggest Soloman bindings with a compatible boot. >The SNS (Soloman Nordic System) has revolutionized XC ski bindings. The flex >is in the binding, not the boot, so boots last longer. If you're a big, >strong guy (I weigh 190) a couple hard twisting falls will destroy many >three-pin boots. Soloman has licensed SNS to many boot makers, so there is >a wide variety available. I use Soloman SR-90 boots for cruising around >and Merrill GoreTex boots for telemarking, both with the same bindings! > > As for skis and poles, the brand is not as important as the type. >You probably should look for a somewhat wide ski if you break track (52mm at >the waist will do) and probably want sidecut. (as opposed to skis which have >parrellel sides) If you don't use groomed trails, avoid the "butterfly >basket" poles; if you break track often, get the biggest basket you can buy. >If you will be telemarking, get some cheap, but properly fitted downhill >poles. > > Last, a biased opinion... Take some lessons! (I'm a Certified >Instructor working for Mirror Mountain in the Mt. Hood area.) Nothing is >worse than wanting to learn some new technique and finding out you have to >unlearn three bad habits first! A lesson-practice regimen is best, with >perhaps four lessons a season (assuming you spend the rest of the season >skiing) optimal. > > >Path: tekred!tektronix!decvax!bellcore!allegra!ulysses!mhuxr!ihnp4!cbosgd!cbsck!cbscc!rsg >From: rsg@cbscc.UUCP (Bob Garmise) >Date: Fri, 18-Jan-85 07:03:59 PST > >Skis: I own waxless and waxable. I prefer waxable if the weather is fairly > constant. Waxless is good for starters but typically does not glide > well. You may find yourself walking much of the way and not skiing. > - Don't get racing xc skis. These are narrower than regular xc skis and > are very difficult to control for beginners. > - When you stand with both feet on the skis, you should be able to slip > a playing card under the ski. It's all in the camber...too much and you > glide even on the backstroke...too little and you grip all the time. > - Brands are moderately different, but not for the beginner. Fischer, > Rossignol, Trak, etc. are all well known, as are others. Look for camber > first and color, brand name, etc. next. In other words, don't get an off > brand, but brand is not as critical here for beginners as it might be in > downhill skiing. > - Length is supposed to be perfect if you can curl your upraised hand > around the tip. However, if you are very light or very heavy this won't > work. Again, camber is the key, not length per se. > >Bindings: I prefer metal, three prong bindings. I hesitate to buy plastic. >Three prong is a standard, but the Adidas system is also popular now. Your >choice of shoes may dictate your decision here. > >Poles: While standing on the skis, they should fit under your armpit. Too long >and you cannot get enough leverage to obtain the required push. Too short and >you will get a backache from bending over all the time. > >Shoes: This is the real key. Pay $1,000,000 if you have to to get a comfortable >pair. Put on liner socks, a pair of knee socks, and try out shoes. They should >feel incredibly great right from the beginning. No break-in period...no >"they'll feel better later" lines, no "they'll be ok once you oil them" lines. >Simply, they should feel ok right off the bat. I paid $55 back in 1978 which was >a lot at the time. Definitely worth the money. > > >From: tektronix!decvax!utah-cs!haas@utah-gr.utah-cs.arpa >Date: Tue, 22 Jan 85 16:59:20 MST > >I wrote the following article for the local Sierra Club magazine. >I personally use Fabiano 294 boots, Rottifella bindings and Atomic >Telemark skis. This is a mountaineering setup. > > > > HOW TO GET STARTED IN NORDIC SKIING > >Boots > >The most important item of equipment is not the ski, but the boot. >There are two basic types of Nordic ski boot. >The mountaineering boot looks like a hiking boot with a square toe. >This type of boot has a lug sole and comes above the ankle. >It is feasible to walk long distances in this type of boot. >The lug sole performs well on dirt, rock and hard-packed snow, and the >high upper will protect your ankles from being twisted. >This is the best type of boot for skiing high peaks and ridges. > >The other popular boot design is used primarily for track skiing. >It is built like a running shoe, except that the track boot has a square >toe and the sole is slippery. >Track boots do not come above your ankle. >The track boot is much lighter than the mountaineering boot, but is >useless for walking in the difficult conditions normally encountered >in the mountains. >For this reason, it is used primarily for skiing on flat or gently >rolling terrain. >The track boot will allow you to ski faster on flat terrain with less exertion >than is needed with a mountaineering boot. > >Proper fit is extremely important in a Nordic ski boot. >It is well worth your while to experiment widely to get a good fit. >There are a number of brands of boot that are of equally high quality, >and differ mainly in the shape of the last that they are made on; a >good example is the Asolo and Fabiano brands. >Boots should fit closely everywhere, so that your foot does not >slide inside the boot; but at the same time, the boot must not pinch >your foot anywhere, because the pressure will prevent good circulation >at that point and allow your feet to get cold. >Be sure to wear the same socks when testing boot fit that you will >wear when skiing. >A boot which is too large will not let you control the ski, and a boot >which is too small will freeze your feet. >Plan on investing a substantial amount of time to get a good fit. >This is probably the most important decision you will have to make in >learning to ski. > >The ability of a boot to control the ski is determined mostly by >how well the sole of the boot resists twisting. >To test this property, just pick up the boot with the toe in one hand and >the heel in the other and twist it. >There are substantial differences between boots, and the differences are >by no means obvious from looking at the boot. >Some of the lightest track boots have amazingly strong soles, and some >apparently strong mountaineering boots actually do poorly in this regard. >You can educate yourself to the quality of the various boots that are >for sale by trying this test on a variety of boots. > >If you want to improve the ability of a boot to resist twist, there are >several devices on the market which can help. >One old standby is called a heel locator. >One piece of a heel locator is a plastic finger which attaches to the heel >of the boot and sticks straight backwards. >The other piece is a V shaped part that screws to the ski in a position >where the finger on the boot fits into the V when your foot is >down flat on the ski. >This prevents your heel from sliding off the ski in a turn. >A more recent, and more general device is sold under the trademark Voile >and is a piece of flat plastic which screws under the ski binding and is >held against the sole of the boot by a heel clip. >This prevents the boot sole from twisting sideways in any position, at >the cost of greater effort to raise the boot off the ski. >With a really good boot, neither is necessary, but if >you have an inferior boot you can probably use one of these devices >to get more control over the ski. > >If you want to make a final test of your chosen boot, several of the >shops around town will rent demonstrators of their high quality boots. >There is also considerable variation between shops in the quality of their >general rental boot; if you are renting, it is worth your while >to check a number of shops. > >Bindings > >Nordic bindings hold the toe of the boot against the ski while >allowing the heel to rise freely. >There are several incompatible designs of bindings, but in all cases >they can be judged by how firmly they hold the toe of the boot without >damaging it. >The traditional three-pin binding is used with mountaineering boots. >The standard for the size of boot and binding is sufficiently imprecise >that many high-quality shops consider it necessary to grind the toe >of the boot to get a really good fit in the binding. >This is necessary to guarantee that there will be no looseness, which >would result in loss of control of the ski. > >An amazing amount of force is exerted on the small area where the toe of >the boot meets the binding, so the binding must be very strong and rigid >to resist bending or breaking. >Some designs on the market are actually inadequate in this regard. >An important consideration, often overlooked, is that there must be space >between the toe box of the boot and the bail when the boot heel is lifted >off the ski. >If the boot presses forward against the bail, the bail might break or the >pins might tear out of the holes in the boot. >The position of the toe box and the bail have not been standardized, and >there are combinations which result in serious equipment damage in hard >skiing. >Many shops are not aware of the extent of this problem, so check carefully >any combination that you put together. > >Gaiters and Overboots > >These are garments worn on the lower leg that protect your feet from snow >getting into the top of the boot. >They are available in designs ranging from those that cover only the ankle >area up to those that extend from just below the knee down to completely >cover the top of the boot. >The kind that cover the boot can produce a major improvement in warmth and >foot comfort, especially because the leather in the boot is not really a >good insulator. >If you are prone to cold feet, you should seriously consider investing in >the more effective (and expensive) types of overboot. >There are several brands with rubber rands which go around and underneath >the boot. >These rands will slide off a boot with a weak sole, but are very effective >and comfortable on the stiffer soled mountaineering boots. >If you get an overboot that covers the toe of the boot, be sure that there >is room for it inside the binding you will use. > >Skis > >Skis come in two basic types. >Mountaineering skis are very similar to downhill skis, but are somewhat >lighter and skinnier. >Most types of mountaineering ski have pronounced sidecut, that is, the >middle of the ski is substantially narrower than the toe or heel. >This makes the ski easier to turn, at the expense of being somewhat harder >to slide forward in a straight line. >Track skis, on the other hand, are straight sided, which makes them easier >to slide forward and harder to turn. >Track skis are normally much skinnier than mountaineering skis, and commonly >are lighter too. > >Many mountaineering skis come with metal edges, which greatly improves your >ability to control the ski on the sun glaze and wind pack common at upper >elevations. >Most metal edges are steel, although some skis have been marketed with >aluminum edges in an attempt to reduce weight. >Unfortunately the aluminum edges do not stay sharp, and so are not as >effective as the steel edges. >You should chose a steel edged ski if your interest lies in the >area of high altitude ski mountaineering. > >Poles > >Nordic poles are designed to release from the snow easily when tilted forward. >These are really intended for track skiing. >When skiing trees, it is worthwhile to have poles with the type of wrist strap >that breaks away in case your pole gets caught in a tree while you are skiing >fast. >A number of people have suffered shoulder dislocations because of this type >of accident. >Alternatively, of course, you can simply remove the strap when you are in >the trees. >Downhill poles work well for mountaineering, but are less satisfactory for >track skiing. >One brand of pole converts to an avalanche probe, but before you buy them >you should be aware that the electronic avalanche transceivers are not much >more expensive and are MUCH more effective at locating victims. > >Clothing > >Nordic skiers change rapidly from vigorous physical activity to complete >inactivity and back again. >This puts enormous demands on clothing. >Wear several layers, so that you can adjust the amount of insulation to your >level of activity. >Choose fabrics that retain their insulating ability when wet. >Polypropylene is excellent in this regard, and an especially good choice for >underwear. >If you buy polypro clothing, however, be aware that it has a very low melting >point and should not be put into a clothes dryer, regardless of what the >label on the garment says. >Wool/nylon blends and nylon bunting are also OK when wet. >Down is an excellent insulator when dry, but worthless when wet. >Cotton should not be relied on for insulation outdoors in the winter. > >Nylon shells will protect you from wind, but not rain or serious snow. >Gore-tex(tm) gives excellent protection from wind and adequate protection from >snow, and works fairly well in Utah winters, but is not as good in rainy >weather. >If you may be exposed to rain or very wet snow, bring along the kind of >rain garment that is totally impervious to water. > >Instruction > >Many ski shops and touring centers sell instruction, and some shops will give >you a free beginner lesson to help get you hooked on the sport. >The University of Utah offers some skiing programs. >An excellent book on ski mountaineering technique is /Cross Country >Downhill/ by Steve Barnett, published by Pacific Search Press and >widely available at bookstores and outdoor shops. > > >From: tektronix!uw-beaver!ssc-vax!stanford >Date: Mon, 21 Jan 85 17:59:35 pst > >for what it's worth, i have similar requirements to yours and have the >following: rossignol dynalite (dyna something anyway ~1400 grams) ski. > merril xcd velcro boots on standard 75 mm bindings. >i like the 75 mm bindings since they offer some toe protection when skiing in >crust or around stumps. the boots are ok. i recomend stiff ankle high boots >for control, and because it makes it more fun to learn turning. in spite of >initial scepticism, i find i do like the velcro for speed and convenience >(ever try to relace under gaiters?). i am mad at rossignol since my caribous >broke but for the money liked the dyna whatever as a light touring model, with >generous sidecut so good for touring. have heard better things recently about >the epoke 900 and 1000 waxless. most friends have the old reliable fischer >touring crown which i find old and boring (heavy, little sidecut.) enjoy. more >on request. > > >From: tektronix!decvax!allegra!mhuxt!hstrop > >Well, just speaking personally, I've had bad luck with >Rossignol skis. My friends speak very highly of their Trak waxless >skis, however. (I'm a waxer myself) >As far as bindings go, there are some very nice step in bindings >available right now. At any rate, buy something that uses metal! >I've seen too many people with plastic bindings that showed cold >weather fatigue and fracture after a couple of uses. Rottifella >makes some excellent bindings. > > The hardest decision for me was the binding. I tried Salamon bindings (step-in and manual) onn many rental skis and found the lateral support was too weak and my heel would easily slip off the ski. It is probably unfair to blame these on the binding, because I am sure a stiffer boot would have helped immensely. I rented the Trak step-in binding and found it had most of the benefits of the Salamon binding with noticeably better lateral support. The sole on the Trak boot was much stiffer than the sole on the Salamon boot. My wife tried a three pin binding and after a slight adjustment period she thought they were fine. The rental shop did not have my size in a 3 pin binding, so I never tried it. After talking to a rental shop the is using the Trak binding system on their rentals, I decided on the Trak system. On this one I am really sticking out my neck, they are plastic, Trak is the only manufacture of the shoes, and this is their first year of production. So far we have had no problems and with my style of skiing (falling) I give bindings a good workout. The choice of skis was much easier. We do a lot of off track and "ill defined" track skiing and so I wanted a ski with a good sidecut, but one that would also do well in a good track. My wife and I rented Trak Novas and were very impressed by their performance, but we wanted a little more sidecut. We decided on the Trak Mariah which is much like a Nova but more sidecut. This ski is performing better than we expected and we are very happy with them. The poles are metal Trak poles of the proper length. We have no gripes with the poles. The boots are (of course) Trak. They fit my wife and I very well which influenced our choice of bindings. They are above the ankle and provide good support. The heel has a "V" groove if you want to use that type of heel plate. XC skiing is a great wintertime family sport and my family and I are enjoying the snow instead of dreading it. I sure am glad that good XC trails are only 1/2 hour away. Thanks to all that replied. If my bindings break I will let you know and you can all say "I told you so!". Ron Bremer ..!tektronix!tekred!ronb