haas@utah-gr.UUCP (Walt Haas) (10/28/85)
Rob Rosen (rosen@ucbvax) writes: > Using bindings that are less than four years old is a very dangerous > practice... Back in 1977 I broke my arm in three places because my > Salomon 444's didn't release properly... This story is similar to many I have heard in recent years, but the thing all these stories have in common isn't the age of the bindings, it's the fact that they were Salomons. I will probably have to replace my old Spademans (Spademen?) this year, since my new boots don't have any place for the soleplate, so I'm interested in the current state of the binding art. Most of the pros around here use Salomon 747s, but I've run into an awful lot of people with leg casts acquired on Salomons, so for once I'm reluctant to imitate the pros. I'm looking for recommendations from anybody with experience on the subject. I'm a reasonably good skier (I can ski almost anything around here) and inherited knees which are easily injured. I've been setting my bindings to release easily for the last few years, and putting up with a few false releases for the sake of my knees. What does anybody have to recommend? Thanks in advance -- Walt Haas ARPA: HAAS@UTAH-20 uucp: .... {decvax | ihnp4 | seismo} !utah-cs!haas
dotto@winston.UUCP (Kim Dotto) (10/31/85)
I have skied for about the last 15 years and have seen a number of different types of binding come and go in popular vogue. Among the list are: Burt Retractables, Besser Plates (which I owned and hated), and a number of old old old beartrap bindings. Various shops in my area have pushed various bindings over the years but my overall favorites have been LOOK bindings. The LOOK 89 should work for your weight. The LOOK 99 would give a higher margin of safety (which is probably why the salesman recommended them). There really are no BAD bindings on the market today (although I have always considered Salamon bindings to be leg breakers , my opinion only, no facts to prove this). Any binding should perform well within the manufacturers ratings provided the entire system (boots,bindings,skis) is properly matched and installed. "all the views are my opinions only" Kim
kaepplein@amber.DEC (11/01/85)
OK, here is something on bindings. I didn't post before because I'm no expert or 20+ year skier. Here is a summary derived from reading and conversations in ski shops: I've been looking for new bindings for my new skis (3G's). I got Solomon 647s for my other pair of skis last year and they work fine. Here are some of the bindings under consideration: ESS: These can be moved for and aft on the ski. A nice feature allowing compensation for conditions and your mood. ESS claims these have small mounting area, and heel movement for minimal ski flex impedence. No friction compensation device to ease forward twisting falls (where the toe pressures the anti-friction plate) is a caveat. Price is $200 and availability is poor, however the bindings can be moved between skis with extra $50 mounting plates. Look: The new XM releases in backward falls. The only other one to do this is Geze. Turntable heel aids release in twisting falls. Probably one of the safest bindings on the market. Disadvantage of the XM is that the toe upward release setting is not seperate from the lateral release (as can be done on Geze) so safety suffers when cranked down for anti- shock use in racing. Price ~$150 Geze: I havn't really considered these much. I've heard that they don't allow for much lateral toe travel used in racing. Marker: Seems to be a favorite for racing. Toe has good anti-shock travel. New MR "twincam" toe eliminates need for anti-friction pads and their problems with wear and dirty boots. Two upper models have lightweight turntable heel with small mounting area (and effect on ski flex), but it is NOT step in - you have to set it. A conventional step in heel is also available. Price ~$150. Tyrollia: Has dual diagonal system with heel that travels laterally. I'm not sure when this wins (backward twisting falls?) but it offers more saftey than a fixed heel. Plastic vs. aluminum bindings: Plastic is lighter and less expensive, but not used in racing models because it will flex a little supposedly giving poorer control. Top vs. next to top binding: Generally the next to top binding has all the features of the top binding, but softer springs and lower DIN ranges. These are fine for most people and actually safer when set in the midrange of the scale. Saftey: I wish that I had some Look's as a beginner. Low speed falls offer the best chance for getting hurt. When moving fast there is enough energy around to release bindings reguardless of angles, friction, and directions. I too have bad knees. I've sublexated (dislocated) my left patella (knee cap) 4 times already (only once skiing) and don't want to loosen it up again and have surgery. Conclusion: None. For me its between ESS, Look XM and Marker MR but I still havn't made up my mind. Mark Kaepplein
mike@hpfcla.UUCP (11/06/85)
As a long time mogul skier, it has been my experience that many accidents occur when bindings are set tight enough to prevent "blowouts" on the bumps. Then, a slow fall results in a break or other damage to the knees or ankles. Salomon has changed their ads lately to put less emphasis on elasticity (the prevention of blowouts), since they gave skiers a false sense of security. "Since I popped out of my bindings, they must be too loose..." However, note that I'm not advocating that looser is always better. You can get seriously injured from premature release, too. You should check the release point of your bindings, using your body as the indicator. If you can't purposely get out of the binding without injury, then you may get injured in an accident. Machines are only a guide. In summary, do what works for you, but be aware of the pitfalls. Mike Forman Hewlett-Packard Company Fort Collins, Colorado Obligatory note: Nothing in this message is the opinion of myself or my employer. I never saw any of this before it magically appeared on Notes.
rjs@hpfcla.UUCP (11/06/85)
I have had some (bad) experience with Soloman bindings over the years that I thought I would share. Back in the early 1970's I bought my first pair of Soloman bindings. They were the 505 model (top of the line) and I had them mounted on a pair of Spaulding Sideral skiis. Within a year the toe piece had developed a dangerous amount of play which caused the bindings to release at very dangerous times. I had them replaced under warantee. After another year the same problem occured. At this time Soloman was introducing their 555 binding. The 555 was being sold with a 5 year guarantee to convince customers that they had fixed the toe piece problem. Being young (and perhaps a slow learner) I decided I would buy these new 555's that would correct the problem. I had a pair mounted on a pair of Rossignol 102's. To make a long story short, I had 4 pair of toe pieces replaced under the guarantee. Needless to gave up on Soloman. I bought a pair of Look Nevada bindings. About that time Soloman was introducing the Soloman 727. The local dealer told me that Soloman was so sure that they had fixed the toe problem that they were reducing their guarantee to 2 years. I chuckled and said I'll take the Look's please. The looks were the most trouble free bindings I have ever owned. They were a major improvement over the Soloman's and some Spademan's that I had tried on some 180's that I was using for jumping/ballet. My only complaint with the Looks was that they were such a pain to get in and out of. My last purchase was a pair of Marker MR's. So far they have been excellent but I haven't used them for long enough to know about their durability. Bob "lucky those damn Soloman's didn't kill me" Schneider ihnp4!hpfcla!hpfcll!rjs
stryker@dicomed.UUCP (d. j. stryker) (11/08/85)
In article <1614@utah-gr.UUCP> haas@utah-gr.UUCP (Walt Haas) writes: >Rob Rosen (rosen@ucbvax) writes: > >> Using bindings that are less than four years old is a very dangerous >> practice... Back in 1977 I broke my arm in three places because my >> Salomon 444's didn't release properly... > OK, folks, I'm going to go out on a limb with this one. I think that when it comes down to it, just about any binding made in the post cable binding era is going to do the job of protecting your legs more or less as well as any other if it is adjusted properly. I claim that most leg breaker falls would be leg breakers regardless of the binding used, and to blaim your bindings for your injuries is probably barking up the wrong lift pole. You want facts and figures about this one? Well I don't have them! What I do have is 17 years of skiing/racing/instructing experience and I've seen my share of injuries. Most injuries I've seen have occured because the skier is out of control, or is doing something that is a risk for his/her level of experience. This is part of the exhilaration of skiing for many, but it does have its dangers. --- Don
ibyf@ihlpa.UUCP (Scott) (11/15/85)
As a skier for the last seven years, I have set my Tyrolia 350 diagonals like this. At the beginning of the season I set them on the beginning of the 2 setting. (the recommended for my size and weight is middle of the 3) While standing in my living room, I find that I can pull out of them in any direction with a medium effort. This insures that I'll end up chasing a ski a few yards instead of breaking something. (Preferable in my book anyday!) When I regain my confidence and "ski legs" I SLOWLY readjust the bindings as I find myself comming out of them a little too often. This of course requires keeping a screwdriver in the car, (or whatever else may be required in your case) and requires taking a little time out of your ski day. But in the long run, the end results have kept me skiing happily for seven years and I hope this will be the eighth!> as a side note, Don't go past the reccomended settings even if you are comming out on every run!(you need new bindings for you style of skiing) and also the last 2 years, I didn't even get to the "Recommended" setting before ski-season was over. Happy schussing! Dave Scott