john@moncol.UUCP (John Ruschmeyer) (07/04/85)
Looking throught the new PC-World, I came across an add for a C compiler from a company called Ecosoft Inc. It was billed as a full C compiler for $49.95. Features include: * Full K&R C compiler that supports all data types and operators (except bit fields) * 8087 co-processor support using a single library * A robust standard library with over 150 functions, including trancendentals, color, and others. * OBJ output for linking with Link * Error messages in English * Easy-to-read and complete user's manual The address of the company: Ecosoft Inc. 6413 N. College Avenue Indianapolis, IN 46220 (317) 255-6476 Has anyone out there heard of this company or, better yet, purchased this compiler? It seems too good to be true, but if it is, it would be the Turbo Pascal of C compilers. I am considering this product, but thought I'd check it out first. Thanks for any help. -- Name: John Ruschmeyer US Mail: Monmouth College, W. Long Branch, NJ 07764 Phone: (201) 222-6600 x366 UUCP: ...!vax135!petsd!moncol!john ...!princeton!moncol!john ...!pesnta!moncol!john Silly Quote: "He doesn't do anything right... He's saving the Old Pepsi." - Johnny Carson New COKE- the refreshment that pauses.
hall@ittral.UUCP (Doug Hall) (07/10/85)
I called Ecosoft and asked for additional information on this compiler. The brochure I got stated that the compiler had been reduced in price from $250. They also sell a CP/M80 version of this compiler, but the price on it is still $250, I think. I assume it supports only the small model, the ad didn't say one way or the other. They claim 8087 support is automatic - if you have one, it'll use it. I'm going to give it a try - can't afford anything else C-wise. Doug Hall ITT Telecom, Raleigh, NC ittvax!ittral!hall
psc@lzwi.UUCP (Paul S. R. Chisholm) (07/11/85)
< I can use my magic to change the color to red -- but I don't do windows. > In article <410@moncol.UUCP>, john@moncol.UUCP (John Ruschmeyer) writes: > > Looking throught the new PC-World, I came across an add for a C compiler > from a company called Ecosoft Inc. It was billed as a full C compiler for > $49.95. >... > The address of the company: Ecosoft Inc. . . . >... > Has anyone out there heard of this company or, better yet, purchased this > compiler? It seems too good to be true, but if it is, it would be the Turbo > Pascal of C compilers. Maybe not. Ecosoft has had a reasonably good C compiler for CP/M-80 for a few years now. I think they were in one of the reviews in the Aug 83 (?) "C" issue of Byte. Reviewers' consensus seemed to be that the product was all right, but not outstanding. I've heard some pretty good things about C-Ware's $109 DeSmet C compiler. It's not as tight as the Turbo Pascal compiler, but it does include a screen editor and RAM-disk software (and an optional $50 symbolic debugger). Any DeSmet users want to wave a flag? Then again, the "Turbo Pascal of C compilers" may yet come this year from Borland, the people who bring you Turbo Pascal and Sidekick. Stay tuned. Final note: I wish some C compiler supplier would provide something like "lint", the C program checker. Yeah, I now there's one avaiable separately for four hundred dollars. Do I hear one hundred? -- -Paul S. R. Chisholm The above opinions are my own, {pegasus,vax135}!lzwi!psc not necessarily those of any {mtgzz,ihnp4}!lznv!psc telecommunications company. (*sigh* ihnp4!lzwi!psc does *NOT* work!!! Use above paths.) "It must be fast, and it must be red, and it must have windows."
shor@sphinx.UChicago.UUCP (Melinda Shore) (07/11/85)
[] > From: psc@lzwi.UUCP (Paul S. R. Chisholm) > Final note: I wish some C compiler supplier would provide something > like "lint", the C program checker. Yeah, I now there's one avaiable > separately for four hundred dollars. Do I hear one hundred? Wizard C comes with a lint-like utility as part of the package. The package is pretty expensive ($450), but it looks like an excellent compiler. -- Melinda Shore ..!ihnp4!gargoyle!sphinx!shor University of Chicago Computation Center Staff.Melinda%chip@UChicago.Bitnet
john@moncol.UUCP (John Ruschmeyer) (07/11/85)
] Looking throught the new PC-World, I came across an add for a C compiler
]from a company called Ecosoft Inc. It was billed as a full C compiler for
]$49.95.
]
]The address of the company:
]
] Ecosoft Inc.
] 6413 N. College Avenue
] Indianapolis, IN 46220
]
] (317) 255-6476
]
]Has anyone out there heard of this company or, better yet, purchased this
]compiler? .......
]
]I am considering this product, but thought I'd check it out first.
Well, the response to the above has been overwhelming. Several people have
asked me to post a summary of responses, so here goes:
===========================================================================
From: ihnp4!gargoyle!sphinx!shor (Melinda Shore)
EcoSoft has been around for some time now. The president of the company is
Jack Purdum, the fellow who wrote those books on C programming (one is a
tutorial, the other is called something like "The C Programmer's Library").
His first compiler was for the Z-80 and got terrible reviews, so he
tightened it up and now it's probably the most solid of the CP/M compilers.
He also wrote Eco-Stat, a so-so statistical package for CP/M and MS-DOS
systems. He came out with the MS-DOS compiler about a year ago. The price
on both packages was $295, until he dropped the price several months ago. I
think the MS-DOS package is probably a better deal, since you need MACRO-80
or the SLR assembler-linker package to generate object code from the CP/M
compiler. It's my guess, though, that the MS-DOS compiler doesn't generate
assembly code (which is probably less of an issue for MS-DOS than it is for
CP/M).
I would think that it's *certainly* worth $49.95. (BTW, I bet you can get
it a little cheaper through the Programmer's Shop in Massachusetts. That
way you can get on their mailing list, too.)
===========================================================================
From: vax135!cornell!uw-beaver!tektronix!reed!rosalia
Hello,
My brother bought their product which ran on an Epson QX-10
running a Z80 and CP/M. It is a good C compiler, and does all the UNIX
stuff and libraries. It also runs fast, his only complaint was that
it took a while to compile. I would reccomend it. So long
Mark Galassi
...!tektronix!reed!rosalia
===========================================================================
From: John Lowry <topaz!seismo!BBNZ.ARPA!jlowry>
I have had the ECO-C compiler for about 6 weeks now and am very
pleased with it. The worst complaint I have is that a source line
that extends beyond the 80th column is truncated and makes it barf.
Some notes:
o There is an executable file for each pass of the
compilation. ie. you can run each pass separately.
o comes with an assembler or you can use MASM.
o uses LINK, so the objects are compatible.
o You will want an editor.
o Compilation times are about the same as other C compilers.
I don't have any benchmark data, but it seems to compile
faster than my Mark Williams compiler.
o ONLY supports small model (64k data, 64k code)
o supports all the machine specific calls (video and other
ports) and supports calls to DOS and BIOS.
o This is a very strict compiler, no sloppy coding allowed.
Stuff that MWC compiled or warned about would not compile on
ECO-C. Examination revealed in every case that I had done
some 'fuzzy' coding.
o No cascading of error messages. It barfs on the first one.
Error messages are informative with an english phrase
describing the error, error code, line number, file name,
position on the line (14th character) and the character
itself.
o #include messages can only be nested 2 deep. One 'bug' I
found is when I declared a structure in one include file,
and defined an extern structure to be of the same type as
the first, but in another include file, it barfed. Solution
was to place both references in the same file.
include file 1
struct DECIMAL ....
#include <file 2>
include file 2
extern struct DECIMAL dc; (hates this because
it doesn't know what
DECIMAL is.)
o tokens can be up to 80 characters long, upper and lower case
are differentiated.
o I have a two floppy system with DOS 2.1. The installation
for floppies (which can be redefined) does not allow enough
room for the system on drive 1. (it does on DOS 1.x) They
reccomend 256k on the system, I have 320k, so I will
probably make use of a RAM disk. (I'm still waiting for the
hard disk prices to fall further.)
o There is an installation for hard disk (which you can also
modify)
o Documentation is good, but not a tutorial on C. By the way,
the author (Jack Purdum) also has written two books on C,
one a tutorial and the other a library. The error messages
from the compiler reference page numbers in the book, which
you can buy in a bookstore.
All in all, I am very pleased with this product. It is not a
super powerful complier, but satisfactory for most needs. If you
are doing heavy stuff, then spend the money on a "better" compiler.
This is definately in the spirit of TURBO Pascal, but much better in
its first incarnation than TURBO was. I also got the source for the
libraries, it is worth it, especially if you are a hacker. There
are about 10 include files with the compiler. Reccomendation: GO
FOR IT, and have fun!
By the way, I sent them a personal check, and stuff arrived
about 10 days later, indicating that they really move it out once
the check clears. I also got information on the C Users Group and
other product info with the package.
=========================================================================
From: Peter Ludemann <princeton!ihnp4!alberta!ubc-vision!ubc-cs!ludemann>
I'd appreciate hearing from you about what you find out.
In the meantime, I'm using deSmet C.
It compiles quite quickly (if you have a RAM-disk, I'd
say it's nearly as fast as the old Turbo-Pascal).
The debugger is somewhat buggy - without it, the
price is US$100 or so.
I've been very pleased with the companies response
to my bug reports.
=========================================================================
From: vax135!cornell!uw-beaver!tektronix!hp-pcd!hplabs!qantel!intelca!cem
I have used the CP/M version and found it a solid product. I guess
I will have to get this one too so that I can port all of my software
to my PC.
--Chuck
=========================================================================
Well, the results seems to speak for themselves.
I should mention that one person suggested waiting to see about Borland's
promised Turbo C which is due out later this year.
As for me, I will probably order a copy of the Ecosoft C. (As soon as I pay
my car insurance, that is.... :-) )
--
Name: John Ruschmeyer
US Mail: Monmouth College, W. Long Branch, NJ 07764
Phone: (201) 222-6600 x366
UUCP: ...!vax135!petsd!moncol!john ...!princeton!moncol!john
...!pesnta!moncol!john
Ingredients:
Carbonated water, sugar, caramel color, phosphoric acid,
natural flavorings, caffeinejpm@BNL44.ARPA (John McNamee) (07/15/85)
The DeSmet package is excellent if you only need a small model compiler. My personal opinion is that the 8086 line is so braindamaged when you go outside of 64K code/64K data that large model isn't worth it. For $109 you get an awful lot of bang for the buck (I don't use the symbolic debugger, but it is probably excellent too). The best thing about the system is that it is a complete development environment, and is blindingly fast. You get the fastest C compiler, fastest assembler, and fastest linker that I have ever seen. On my Tandy 2000 (an 8Mhz 186 system), they are disk bound. I put the compiler temporary files on RAM disk, and it seems that 90% of the compile time is spent loading the compiler and source text off disk. If I had the memory to put the whole compiler/linker/library on RAM disk, I bet it would compile and link 50K source programs in under 30 seconds. I should also point out that Desmet includes an editor that is fantastic. It isn't EMACS, but it is fast and well suited to editing source code. "Turbo C" for Borland will not be able to touch this package unless Borland includes a good linking method. Remember that Turbo Pascal is based around idea of one source file for the entire program (I guess they have something like #include, but I don't think that counts). Borland has yet to prove they can produce a system as fast as Turbo Pascal when separate compilation is needed. Turbo Modula will tell (it should be out before Turbo C). -- John McNamee ..!decvax!philabs!sbcs!bnl44!jpm jpm@BNL44.ARPA "MS-DOS is a communist plot"
stewart@houxf.UUCP (Bill Stewart HO 4K-435 x0705) (07/17/85)
Manx Software, Red Bank NJ, makes a collection of compiler products including a
"sort of interpretive" C for about $50. ("Sort of interpretive" means:
"I haven't actually used it, but I think I remember that" and also
"They admit it's not blindingly fast, but it also real cheap"
It is supposed to be full K&R (presumably no extensions?), and it's very fast
for syntax checking, even of the stuff it produces doesn't run very fast.
They also make some good production quality compilers and support tools,
including the "Z" editor which is 90% vi (missing a few things, plus a few
extras, but compatible for what it does.)
--
Bill Stewart ho95c!wcs AT&T Bell Labs, Holmdel NJ
HO 4K-435 x0705 (201-949-0705)
{allegra, ucbvax!ihnp4, decvax!harpo}!houxf!stewartludemann@ubc-cs.UUCP (Peter Ludemann) (07/18/85)
In article <11587@brl-tgr.ARPA> jpm@BNL44.ARPA (John McNamee) writes: >The DeSmet package is excellent if you only need a small model compiler. >My personal opinion is that the 8086 line is so braindamaged when you go >outside of 64K code/64K data that large model isn't worth it. For $109 >you get an awful lot of bang for the buck (I don't use the symbolic debugger, >but it is probably excellent too). The best thing about the system is that >it is a complete development environment, and is blindingly fast. You >get the fastest C compiler, fastest assembler, and fastest linker that I >have ever seen. On my Tandy 2000 (an 8Mhz 186 system), they are disk bound. >I put the compiler temporary files on RAM disk, and it seems that 90% of >the compile time is spent loading the compiler and source text off disk. >If I had the memory to put the whole compiler/linker/library on RAM disk, >I bet it would compile and link 50K source programs in under 30 seconds. >I should also point out that Desmet includes an editor that is fantastic. >It isn't EMACS, but it is fast and well suited to editing source code. > >"Turbo C" for Borland will not be able to touch this package unless Borland >includes a good linking method. Remember that Turbo Pascal is based around >idea of one source file for the entire program (I guess they have something >like #include, but I don't think that counts). Borland has yet to prove they >can produce a system as fast as Turbo Pascal when separate compilation is >needed. Turbo Modula will tell (it should be out before Turbo C). >-- > > John McNamee > ..!decvax!philabs!sbcs!bnl44!jpm > jpm@BNL44.ARPA > > "MS-DOS is a communist plot" In article <11587@brl-tgr.ARPA> jpm@BNL44.ARPA (John McNamee) writes: >The DeSmet package is excellent if you only need a small model compiler. I heartily agree. Apparently there is a package which will let you use more than 64K of data - at any rate, the compiler has overlays which will let you use more than 64K of code (the overlays can be memory resident). On my machine, compiling and linking are limited by disk access. When I used a friend's machine with lots of RAM-disk, my compile time went from 12 minutes to 2 minutes (about 5,000 lines with lots of includes) (on a standard IBM-PC). The version of the symbolic debugger that I have has a few flaws left in it. However, the deSmet people have been very good in responding to my bug reports (when was the last time you got your bug list back with anotations as to what they were going to about them?). So, I suspect that the next version of the debugger will be pretty good. Their visual editor ("see") is pretty good (and fast) for a freebie. And they include a RAM-disk as well. I noticed an ad for the Macintosh deSmet compiler. Does anyone have any experience with it?
freeman@spar.UUCP (Jay Freeman) (07/21/85)
[#define LINE_EATER FALSE] In article <1169@ubc-cs.UUCP> ludemann@ubc-cs.UUCP (Peter Ludemann) writes: >In article <11587@brl-tgr.ARPA> jpm@BNL44.ARPA (John McNamee) writes: >>The DeSmet package is excellent if you only need a small model compiler. > >I heartily agree. Apparently there is a package which will let >you use more than 64K of data - at any rate, the compiler has overlays >which will let you use more than 64K of code (the overlays >can be memory resident). The DeSmet compiler compiles to a rather conventional (DeSmet-furnished) assembly language, whose assembly is the third pass of the compilation. Furthermore, the compiler supports an "asm" directive: foo() /* this all is to go through the compiler */ { ... put some C statements here if you like #asm ... insert assembly-language instructions here # ... more C statements } With these features, it is easy to interface from small-model C to user-defined assembly-language functions. And it is not hard to write such functions to access other segments for code and data both, if need be. -- Jay Reynolds Freeman (Schlumberger Palo Alto Research)(canonical disclaimer)