joe@petsd.UUCP (Joe Orost) (03/22/85)
Now that we have wonderful software to optimize mail paths, I need to know
all the various ways to get from uucp to ARPA. Currently I use:
ucbvax!user@SITE.ARPA
I think there is another path through brl-tgr, and possibly one through
harvard, but I am not sure of these.
Therefore, please MAIL me any uucp -> ARPA connections that you have used
and you know work. I will summarize to the net.
regards,
joe
--
Full-Name: Joseph M. Orost
UUCP: ..!{decvax,ucbvax,ihnp4}!vax135!petsd!joe
ARPA: vax135!petsd!joe@BERKELEY
US Mail: MS 313; Perkin-Elmer; 106 Apple St; Tinton Falls, NJ 07724
Phone: (201) 870-5844
Location: 40 19'49" N / 74 04'37" Whedrick@topaz.ARPA (Chuck Hedrick) (03/26/85)
The Arpanet is a Dept. of Defense resource. There is an authorization process needed to use it. For someone wanting to send mail to an Arpanet site, the best way to handle it is to talk to the system manager of the system you want to talk to, telling him who you want to talk to and what project you are working on. They should be able to arrange a route for you. I would be happy to forward such a request to the system manager of any of the Arpanet systems. You will no doubt find holes in the network access controls that allow you to send mail onto the net from UUCP. But you should know that using any of those holes without permission is effectively breaking somebody's security. I.e. it is an unfriendly act.
gregbo@houxm.UUCP (Greg Skinner) (03/27/85)
> From: hedrick@topaz.ARPA (Chuck Hedrick) > The Arpanet is a Dept. of Defense resource. There is an authorization > process needed to use it. I think it's time, before an all-out flame war starts on who and what is allowed to send mail to the ARPA Internet, for someone in authority (ie. someone who works at DARPA, or for the DCA, or something to that effect) to state the policies of the ARPA Internet in reference to mail access through the gateways. The gateways exist, they are no secret, and there is no official authorization process that I know of to send mail through them. In other words, if you know what they are, you can use them, and you shouldn't expect messages from the known gateways indicating that you cannot reach the ARPA Internet from them. > You will no doubt find holes in the network access controls that allow you to > send mail onto the net from UUCP. But you should know that using any of > those holes without permission is effectively breaking somebody's security. > I.e. it is an unfriendly act. I must disagree (see above). How is it an unfriendly act, or a breaking of security? Where are the holes? ARPA<->UUCP gatewaying is a known procedure. Like I said above, there are known gateways which do forward mail, and every- one on the gateway site who is in a staff position knows of the gateway's existence (i.e. you don't need to do something which the staff doesn't know about). I hope someone in authority reads this newsgroup, or someone can forward this posting to someone in authority (I'd do it, but I don't have a DDN Directory so I don't remember to whom questions can be directed.) I suppose if you have a real important question, it can be addressed to NIC@SRI-NIC, accessible through the known gateways. -- ... hey, we've gotta get out of this place, there's got to be something better than this ... Greg Skinner (gregbo) {allegra,cbosgd,ihnp4}!houxm!gregbo gregbo%houxm.uucp@harvard.arpa
jer@peora.UUCP (J. Eric Roskos) (03/27/85)
> I think it's time ... for someone in authority ... to state the policies > [regarding access to the ARPAnet]. Maybe the original question (from Joe Orost, viz., "what are the valid ARPA<->UUCP gateways") should be generalized, if you are going to do that, to "What are the valid gateways between UUCP and the other e-mail networks?" Presently most of the e-mail networks (Mailnet and CSnet in particular) are accessible via ARPAnet gateways. If the response to the question posed to the ARPA authorities says "no you can't use it," we will have to find ways to communicate with those other networks, or the UUCP net will have lost some of its connectivity: some sites are only on Mailnet or CSnet or BITNET. Does anyone know of UUCP gateways directly to CSNET-RELAY and MIT-MULTICS? (Gateways from UUCP to DEC's networks, and to BITNET, have recently been posted here.) It would obviously be preferable to use such direct connections where possible, but it appears people have relied up till now on the universality of the ARPAnet to insure connectivity between the other networks. -- Full-Name: J. Eric Roskos UUCP: ..!{decvax,ucbvax,ihnp4}!vax135!petsd!peora!jer US Mail: MS 795; Perkin-Elmer SDC; 2486 Sand Lake Road, Orlando, FL 32809-7642 "Not that the story need be long; but that it will take a long time to make it short." -- H. D. Thoreau
mark@cbosgd.UUCP (Mark Horton) (03/27/85)
I am not a "person of authority" on the ARPANET, but I can shed some light. The official ARPANET policy is that anyone who causes a packet to be sent over the ARPANET is "using the ARPANET" and better be doing so only to fulfill a DOD contract. Any other use of the ARPANET is illegal. While there has never been an official statement of what this means for mail bridges (sometimes incorrectly called "gateways"), most people in the know think that if an official interpretation were to be asked for the interpretation would be "if a person on UUCP send a message, via a bridge, to a person on the ARPANET, and that UUCP person has not been officially granted permission to use the ARPANET, this person is using the ARPANET, and the bridge is violating ARPANET policy by serving as an unauthorized gateway." If this issue were to be pursued, it is possible that the sites serving as bridges (as a courtesy to both communities) might be pressured into terminating the bridge service. So we have not pursued it. Practical reality is another matter. Even within the ARPANET itself, there has always been lots of non DOD related traffic. Any university that is on the ARPANET views the entire university (or at least the parts of it that the ARPA contact trusts) is "on the net", and allowed to use it for whatever they like. There is lots of traffic by legitimate researchers talking to other legitimate researchers about research they are doing that is not funded by DARPA. There is lots of personal traffic. (Not unlike UUCP.) There are even big mailing lists, like SF-LOVERS, that clearly are not DOD related. It got to the point where people would list their ARPANET mailing address in their publications and talks, since they knew that most people who were doing related work were also on the ARPANET. (Look in any issue of SIGART, for example.) Now that TCP/IP is the norm, there are lots of local nets at the various universities. People on the local net are also allowed to use the ARPANET as though they were directly on it, but they are not on it and are subject only to the requirements of the local net itself. I have made the analogy that if a DOD person has a terminal on the ARPANET in his office, it's not unlike having a telephone or a paper mailbox on his desk. If I want to send this person paper mail, I'll send it via US mail and the local delivery person will carry it down the hall and drop it in the mailbox. I don't get arrested because I caused this delivery person (a DOD resource) to carry my letter down the hall. Ditto for the phone, assuming the PBX system the DOD organization has is reachable via the public network. I don't see why electronic mail should be treated any differently. Now, we look at the current situation, as it has evolved in practice. The UUCP community has grown to the point where it is larger than the ARPA Internet. There are a few mail bridges who are willing to pass mail between the two (without official permission.) People depend one these bridges to get their jobs done. It doesn't cause anybody any problems to forward mail from one net to the other. In fact, it's more likely to cause a problem when an ARPA person sends mail to UUCP, since they caused some UUCP machine to place a phone call and run up their phone bill. The ARPANET uses leased lines with a fixed cost, so additional traffic (as long as it doesn't overload the network) doesn't cost anything extra. I am told that the people who run the ARPANET are aware of UUCP and other networks, and are not unhappy with the status quo. They realize that people are getting useful work done and do not want to clamp down. They are worried, however, that someone might someday do something nasty to some machine on the ARPANET. They want to be able to invoke their official policy if this happens, shutting off the bridge and preventing such access from happening again. The one major thing that ARPA does not want to have happen is the rest of the world using them as a forwarding mechanism or transport mechanism between two outside networks. If I am on UUCP and I want to send mail to CSNET, right now there is no CSNET-UUCP mail bridge (that I know of) so I have to send my mail via either the ARPANET or BITNET. If I send it via the ARPANET, I'm violating both official policy and unofficial policy, e.g. this is a Bad Thing. If I'm in California and I place a local phone call to my nearby ARPA-UUCP bridge, which sends the mail to New York, which places a local call to the destination, what I've basically done is to use the ARPANET to avoid a phone bill. I am told that this is not supposed to be allowed to happen. Since some networks only seem to be attached to the ARPANET, there is no other way to get to people on them, and I don't feel guilty about going via the ARPANET. This especially applies to LAN's at universities on the ARPANET, but also applies to MailNet. In practice, it may apply to CSNET as well, I don't know of a way to get to them except over the ARPANET. (I would prefer, however, to see CSNET-UUCP bridges set up. Since there are UNIX machines on both, there is no reason for this not to happen.) However, it is bad form to use the ARPANET to go between UUCP and BITNET (there is an official gateway at Penn State) or UUCP and DEC (there is a gateway at DECWRL) or worse yet, between UUCP and UUCP. My reading says that as long as one of the two people involved in the mail transaction is on the ARPANET, it's OK. However, I must disclaim authority on this - I cannot speak for the ARPANET. Mark Horton
dw@rocksvax.UUCP (Don Wegeng) (03/29/85)
In article <1044@topaz.ARPA> hedrick@topaz.UUCP (Chuck hedrick) writes: >You will no doubt find holes in the network access >controls that allow you to send mail onto the net from UUCP. But you should >know that using any of those holes without permission is effectively >breaking somebody's security. I.e. it is an unfriendly act. Here's an excerpt from Defense Data Network (DDN) Management Bulletin #28, dated March 14, 1985. The Arpanet and the DDN are both managed by Defense Communications Agency, but administration and policy the Arpanet is handled by the Defense Advanced Research Project Agency (DARPA). "The purpose of the ARPANET experimental packet-switched network is to provide an experimental facility for research into advanced packet-switched communication technologies, and provide an advanced experimental communication facility in support of government sponsored university computer science research. As such, it is not intended for use in lieu of other operational networks. Such operational facilities are provided for the Defense Department by the Defense Data Network (DDN) and in general by public and private packet-switched networks. "The Arpanet is for Official Use Only, i.e.for government sponsored activities or related supporting activities. The Arpanet may not be used for private gain (e.g. strictly commercial use such as advertising or recruiting)." It is important that anyone who desires to send mail via the Arpanet be aware of the above, for it explains why UUCP-Arpanet gateways are not, in general, for public access. [Please, no flames. I don't make the rules.] /Don -- "Ah yeees, when the ships were wood, and the men were steel." arpa: Wegeng.Henr@Xerox.ARPA csnet: Wegeng.Henr@Xerox.ARPA ns: Wegeng:Henr801C:Xerox uucp: dw@rocksvax.UUCP uucp: {allegra,amd,decvax!rochester,princeton}!rocksvax!dw uucp: ihnp4!tropix!ritcv!rocksvax!dw