[net.mail] Hypothetical problem.

ejnorman@uwmacc.UUCP (Eric Norman) (01/07/86)

In article <383@ncr-sd.UUCP> greg@ncr-sd.UUCP (Greg Noel) apologizes:
> traffic to/through this site to be dropped.  Any traffic sent here
> between January 2 (Thursday) and January 5 (Sunday) should be resent.

Hypothetical situation: suppose I see this and conclude I needn't
worry; I didn't send any mail through ncr-sd recently.  But then

in article <3080@sun.uucp>, chuq@sun.uucp (Chuq Von Rospach) informs us:
> ihnp4 uses pathalias (or a variant of it) to do routing.

So, how do I know ihnp4 didn't pathalias me through ncr-sd?

Suppose further, that there was some way that I included "postage"
with my mail to help ihnp4 pay its phone bills.  Would I then be
entitled to complain?  If so, to whom?  How long would it be before
I even knew I had a complaint?

Just wondering.
-- 
Eric Norman
UUCP:         ...{allegra,ihnp4,seismo}!uwvax!uwmacc!ejnorman
Pony Express: 1210 West Dayton Street, Madison, WI  53706
Life:         Detroit!Alexandria!Omaha!Indianapolis!Madison!Hyde
  
whoopie: yes
	date|touch|strip|join|sleep
		-- from ~Ewbanks/Makefile
  

greg@ncr-sd.UUCP (Greg Noel) (01/10/86)

In article <1878@uwmacc.UUCP> ejnorman@uwmacc.UUCP (Eric Norman) asks:
>
>So, how do I know ihnp4 didn't pathalias me through ncr-sd?

Hmmmmmmm......  Interesting question, so I checked the path costs.  It
turns out that I have cheaper paths to four sites in San Diego than if
they were routed through the local backbone (sdcsvax) (I didn't check
other possible relay sites), and identical costs for seven more.  In the
latter case, the choice of relay is made arbitrarily (but consistantly)
so I don't know which is being used.  The bottom line is that if you
sent mail to a San Diego site during the period in question, you should
resend it.

If it helps, ihnp4 called me with six pieces of traffic during those
four days.  I have the UUCP job numbers assigned by ihnp4, but I don't
know if that can be used to trace the actual jobs.
-- 
-- Greg Noel, NCR Rancho Bernardo    Greg@ncr-sd.UUCP or Greg@nosc.ARPA

gjm@packard.UUCP (Gary J. Murakami) (01/10/86)

The current pathalias info on ihnp4 relating to ncr-sd is attached.
This routing is all standard -- essentially what anyone running
pathalias would get from the UUCP map data.  All external sites are
given a cost of HOURLY, so there isn't any rerouting to directly
connected sites.

Also  FYI, here are the top neighbors for ihnp4 (neighbors that get the
most unames routed through them):

	5058 [all]
	3613 [via]
	 233 seismo
	 216 okstate
	 199 akgua
	 170 allegra
	 154 uel
	 149 ucbvax
	 133 cbosgd
	 112 harvard
	 103 nsc
	  71 tektronix
	  67 topaz
	  67 hplabs

ihnp4 delivers to 1445 (5058-3613) neighboring unames directly and
routes 3613 unames through 205 of its neighbors.

i.e. ihnp4 reachs  29%  (1445/5058) of the UUCPMAP network directly!

As for complaints about service, you are welcome to send me constructive
critcism at <ihnp4!gjm>.  However, there is little ground for complaint
since ihnp4 is providing a relatively expensive service for free.

-Gary

ihnp4 pathalias output relating to ncr-sd:

cost	name	route

500     ncr-sd  ncr-sd!%s
500     ncr-tp  ncr-sd!%s
500     sd.ncr  ncr-sd!%s
700     onion   ncr-sd!onion!%s
700     onion.ncr       ncr-sd!onion!%s
700     ncrtps  ncr-sd!ncrtps!%s
700     tranpro.sd.ncr  ncr-sd!ncrtps!%s
700     pmncrrb ncr-sd!pmncrrb!%s
700     prodmgmt.sd.ncr ncr-sd!pmncrrb!%s
700     fiddler ncr-sd!fiddler!%s
700     saf.sd.ncr      ncr-sd!fiddler!%s
700     se-sd   ncr-sd!se-sd!%s
700     pld.sd.ncr      ncr-sd!se-sd!%s
700     sdencore        ncr-sd!sdencore!%s
700     man     ncr-sd!man!%s
700     ziggy   ncr-sd!ziggy!%s
700     ziggy.ncr       ncr-sd!ziggy!%s
700     vrx.sd.ncr      ncr-sd!ziggy!%s
795     jack    ncr-sd!man!jack!%s
900     tw11    ncr-sd!se-sd!tw11!%s
900     tw11    ncr-sd!se-sd!tw11!%s
1000    isg100  ncr-sd!man!isg100!%s
1095    csm     ncr-sd!man!jack!csm!%s
1400    rd1632  ncr-sd!rd1632!%s

greg@ncr-sd.UUCP (Greg Noel) (01/12/86)

In article <394@packard.UUCP> gjm@packard.UUCP (Gary J Murakami) offers
the ihnp4 pathalias output relating to ncr-sd.

Applying a little knowledge not directly available from pathalias, this
produces three sets of sites:
Our various names: ncr-sd, ncr-tp, and sd.ncr.
NCR sites for which we gateway: onion (onion.ncr), ncrtps (tranpro.sd.ncr),
	pmncrrb (prodmgmt.sd.ncr), fiddler (saf.sd.ncr), se-sd (pld.sd.ncr),
	ziggy (ziggy.ncr, vrx.sd.ncr), tw11 (why does tw11 appear twice?),
	and rd1632.  (Eight actual sites, despite the quantity of names.)
Other San Diego sites: sdencore, man, jack, isg100, and csm.  (Five sites.)

I expected that the NCR sites would be there; with few exceptions, mail
for them must pass through us.  What surprises me is the San Diego sites.
We offer the same costs to those San Diego sites also reached by sdcsvax;
I would have expected that either all of them would be listed or none of
them, so that if sdencore is there, all of the other San Diego sites should
be listed, too.  (We do have a cheaper path to man (and thus jack, isg100,
and csm); I didn't realize that sdcsvax didn't speak to it directly.)

In any event, the bottom line is that if you had traffic for any of those
thirteen unlucky sites during the first few days of the year, you should
retry it.

At the risk of getting on a bandwagon, I, for one, would like to express
my appreciation to Gary, and to the current folks at ihnp4, for providing
us a marvelous service.  They may occasionally get the details wrong, but
they can't always be faulted for that, and their hearts are in the right
place.
-- 
-- Greg Noel, NCR Rancho Bernardo    Greg@ncr-sd.UUCP or Greg@nosc.ARPA