[net.mail] does anybody use upper case in mail names on UUCP?

mark@cbosgd.UUCP (Mark Horton) (01/21/86)

We're running into a problem with a BITNET/UUCP gateway.
It seems that many people on BITNET have only upper case
terminals, and send mail to addresses like USER@HOST.UUCP.
It's fair to turn HOST.UUCP into host.uucp for UUCP, but
what about the USER part?

The ARPA convention is that the case on USER is supposed to
be left alone.  This was done because Multics used to be
case sensitive (although I understand it no longer is.)
4.2BSD is also case insensitive, so mail to host!host!USER
is the same as mail to host!host!user.  But I don't think
System V is.

This leaves a person with an upper case BITNET terminal, who
wants to send mail to a System V user, no way to get the
mail through.  Unless the gateway does some magic and turns
USER@HOST.UUCP into host!host!user.

Are there any systems out there on the UUCP side of the gateway
that would break if this change were to be made?  Any upper case
only names?  Any mixed names?  Any upper case only mailing lists?

The proposed change is somewhat of a hack, but it just might be
the only way to make the gateway work properly.

	Mark

dat@hpcnof.UUCP (01/22/86)

> We're running into a problem with a BITNET/UUCP gateway.
> It seems that many people on BITNET have only upper case
> terminals, and send mail to addresses like USER@HOST.UUCP.
> It's fair to turn HOST.UUCP into host.uucp for UUCP, but
> what about the USER part?

No it's not fair to translate <HOST>.UUCP to <host>.uucp!!  There
is no constraint against machines that have uppercase letters in
them to distinguish them from lowercase letters and this mapping
of case would destroy that.

Besides, how would you ever send mail to "Shasta" (not "shasta")??

Also mapping usernames to lowercase is also wrong.  


My suspicion is that if a terminal cannot generate other than
lowercase you better use some other system to send mail...

(talk about primitive!!)
						-- Dave Taylor

					[hplabs, ihnp4] !hpfcla!d_taylor

reid@glacier.ARPA (Brian Reid) (01/22/86)

I've used upper-case names in uucp for years, just to be pathological and
cause trouble. I recently converted "Glacier" to "glacier" when it became a
backbone site, out of a sense of civic duty.

>This leaves a person with an upper case BITNET terminal, who
>wants to send mail to a System V user, no way to get the
>mail through.  Unless the gateway does some magic and turns
>USER@HOST.UUCP into host!host!user.

The problem with your solution is that it aids and abets the receipt of
all-uppercase mail by helpless System V users. My attitude towards this kind
of thing is that you should do nothing at all to help people with such
radically inferior hardware; maybe the pressure to be able to send mail will
motivate them to upgrade to 1970's technology.
-- 
	Brian Reid	decwrl!glacier!reid
	Stanford	reid@SU-Glacier.ARPA

mikel@codas.ATT.UUCP (Mikel Manitius) (01/26/86)

> We're running into a problem with a BITNET/UUCP gateway.
> It seems that many people on BITNET have only upper case
> terminals, and send mail to addresses like USER@HOST.UUCP.
> It's fair to turn HOST.UUCP into host.uucp for UUCP, but
> what about the USER part?

Well, it he's on a Unix system, and really wants to kludge
it, he could do:

	mail `echo "USER@HOST.UUCP" | dd conv=lcase`

	or

	mail `echo "USER@HOST" | dd conv=lcase`.UUCP

Sigh.
-- 
			Mikel Manitius @ AT&T-IS Altamonte Springs, FL
			...{ihnp4|akgua|bellcore|clyde|koura}!codas!mikel

laura@hoptoad.uucp (Laura Creighton) (01/28/86)

The people on BITNET with the upper case only terminals have a worse
problem than not being able to send mail to System V people.  They
have upper case only terminals! I think that the best solution all
around would be for them to buy better terminals.  If that is not
possible, then somewhere in BITNET land there needs to be a convention
for ``Begin lower case now''.  All of our uucp logins are mixed case
right now; they all begin with an upper-case U, e.g. Usun Ulll-crg
Uihnp4 and Ucbosgd.  While it seems unlikely that anyone would
want to send mail to any of these accounts, the fact that we have
a use for mixed case account names implies that somebody else might
have one as well, and I don't think that we should have another
kludgy limitation to accommodate the BITNET people.

-- 
Laura Creighton		
sun!hoptoad!laura		(note new address!  l5 will still
ihnp4!hoptoad!laura		 work for a while....)
hoptoad!laura@lll-crg.arpa

jer@peora.UUCP (J. Eric Roskos) (01/28/86)

> We're running into a problem with a BITNET/UUCP gateway.
> It seems that many people on BITNET have only upper case
> terminals, and send mail to addresses like USER@HOST.UUCP.
> It's fair to turn HOST.UUCP into host.uucp for UUCP, but
> what about the USER part?

Well, I responded by mail to Mark on this question, but unfortunately
ihnp4 can't contact cbosgd (!) at present, so the message got returned...

----- Original Message Follows -----

Hello, Mark...

I have a suggestion for an algorithm.  System V's "getty" uses the
following algorithm when getting the user name: "The user's name is
scanned to see if it contains any lower-case alphabetic characters; if
not, and if the name is non-empty, the system is told to map any future
upper-case characters on input into the corresponding lower-case
characters by setting IUCLC in c_iflag, and to map any lower case
characters on output to escaped uppercase characters by setting OLCUC in
c_oflag."

Therefore, if a user name typed in to getty contains all uppercase
letters, getty assumes that the user has an all-uppercase terminal.  I
think probably you could do the same: if there are any lowercase
characters at all, leave the name untouched, but if they're all uppercase,
convert to lowercase.

The reason is that it would be impossible under System V for a user with
a name that was all uppercase to log in, as far as I can determine.
It is, however, possible that some mailers allow all-uppercase user names
and are case sensitive, but that's a problem of the mailer, I think.

The tty driver (which performs the above translations) lets you escape
uppercase characters on an all-uppercase terminal by writing a backslash
in front of it; thus, for example, when "login" prompts for a password,
it prints "\PASSWORD: " due to the P being capitalized.  You could use
such a scheme to allow uppercase letters to be left alone when doing the
translation to lowercase, although I am not sure at the moment how compatible
that would be with other standards for writing names in mail addresses.
-- 
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