lamy@utai.UUCP (Jean-Francois Lamy) (09/08/86)
I am trying to communicate with a site in Britain, and I think I need
a basic network topology briefing
The message is destined to site psg.npl.co.uk
Our mailer sends mail in the uk domain to cs.ucl.ac.uk via X.25. If I
remember well, that machine is the gateway to the uk domain, where address
conversion to the "programming-language-style domains" takes place
But the JANET address of the site I am trying to reach is
JANET: jrp%psg.npl.co.uk@uk.ac.ukc
which seems to indicate that JANET and the uk domain are not one and the same
(could the uk in cs.ucl.ac.uk be an internetism while the one in ac.ukc.uk is
a janetism?)
Is the real address
jrp%psg.npl.co.uk%ukc.ac.uk@cs.ucl.ac.uk
-- assuming we have a direct link to cs.ucl.ac.uk?
No joke?
Is this the same kind of situation where an arpa site with a .edu name
must go through csnet-relay explicitly to reach ai.toronto.edu on CSNet?
Hoping for the day where a machine will have a UNIQUE id and that gateways
will work...
Jean-Francois Lamy
AI Group, Dept of Computer Science CSNet: lamy@ai.toronto.edu
University of Toronto EAN: lamy@ai.toronto.cdn
Toronto, ON, Canada M5S 1A4 UUCP: lamy@utai.uucp
------- Forwarded Messages
Date: Mon, 8 Sep 86 05:27:10 edt
Subject: Failed Mail Transfer
Date: Mon, 8 Sep 86 2:25:21 BST
Message not delivered to address: jrp@psg.npl.co.uk
The reason for the failure was:
[USER] (BHST) Unknown host/domain name in "jrp@psg.npl.co.uk"
[ and so on...]
------- Message 2
[exerpts from the signature of the message I wish to reply to]
UUCP: jrp%nplpsg.uucp@mcvax.uucp
jrp@psg.npl.co.uk
...mcvax!ukc!nplpsg!jrp
ARPA: jrp%nplpsg.uucp@seismo.css.gov
JANET: jrp%psg.npl.co.uk@uk.ac.ukc
------- End of Forwarded Messages
--
Jean-Francois Lamy
AI Group, Dept of Computer Science CSNet: lamy@ai.toronto.edu
University of Toronto EAN: lamy@ai.toronto.cdn
Toronto, ON, Canada M5S 1A4 UUCP: lamy@utai.uucpstephen@comp.lancs.ac.uk (Stephen J. Muir) (09/11/86)
In article <2279@utai.UUCP> lamy@utai.UUCP (Jean-Francois Lamy) writes: >I am trying to communicate with a site in Britain, and I think I need >a basic network topology briefing > >The message is destined to site psg.npl.co.uk > >Our mailer sends mail in the uk domain to cs.ucl.ac.uk via X.25. If I >remember well, that machine is the gateway to the uk domain, where address >conversion to the "programming-language-style domains" takes place This is nothing to do with the domain order in this case. What has happened is that UKNET (the UK branch of USENET) has evolved separately from the two X.25 networks over here (JANET and PSS). A while ago, the UKNET powers to be decided that all UKNET sites should also have a domain-style name as used in JANET and PSS. Such domain names should be registered in the NRS (Name Registration Scheme), which is a central registry of domain-style UK names. Since, due to what I shall call "red tape", it is not very straightforward to register your name in the NRS, not all UKNET sites are registered there yet. I suspect many sites have given up trying! The machine "cs.ucl.ac.uk" is the "official" JANET<->ARPA gateway. It does not recognise UKNET names. The other gateway, known both as "ukc.ac.uk" and "ukc.uucp", recognises both the UKNET and domain-style names (whether registered in the NRS or not), but costs the UK site money both for incoming and outgoing mail. What I suggest you do is try "cs.ucl.ac.uk" first. If that fails, try the other one. -- EMAIL: stephen@comp.lancs.ac.uk | Post: University of Lancaster, UUCP: ...!mcvax!ukc!dcl-cs!stephen | Department of Computing, Phone: +44 524 65201 Ext. 4120 | Bailrigg, Lancaster, UK. Project:Alvey ECLIPSE Distribution | LA1 4YR
jim@cs.strath.ac.uk (Jim Reid) (09/11/86)
In article <2279@utai.UUCP> lamy@utai.UUCP (Jean-Francois Lamy) writes: > >I am trying to communicate with a site in Britain, and I think I need >a basic network topology briefing > >The message is destined to site psg.npl.co.uk > >Our mailer sends mail in the uk domain to cs.ucl.ac.uk via X.25. If I >remember well, that machine is the gateway to the uk domain, where address >conversion to the "programming-language-style domains" takes place > >But the JANET address of the site I am trying to reach is >JANET: jrp%psg.npl.co.uk@uk.ac.ukc >which seems to indicate that JANET and the uk domain are not one and the same >(could the uk in cs.ucl.ac.uk be an internetism while the one in ac.ukc.uk is >a janetism?) JANET and the uk domain should be one and the same: names in the uk domain should be registered in the UK Name Registration Scheme - akin to an ARPA nameserver. The UK ARPA/JANET gateway at UCL takes care of mapping between ARPA and JANET names and relaying the mail. If your ARPA mailer is smart enough to kick all uk mail to UCL without an explicit relay, the address given should be enough for UCL to forward to the appropriate host in JANET. UCL also copes with such bizarre follies as the reverse domain ordering we're stuck with. My ARPA domain address is "jim@cs.strath.ac.uk". In JANET, it's "jim@uk.ac.strath.cs"!! (We'll ignore JANET's long and short names - they only make this shambles more confusing.) >Is the real address >jrp%psg.npl.co.uk%ukc.ac.uk@cs.ucl.ac.uk >-- assuming we have a direct link to cs.ucl.ac.uk? Yes. The site you are actually trying to reach is on UUCP and is accessible through the UK UUCP "gateway" at UKC. They have tried to prevent confusion by arranging that all outgoing UUCP mail presents addresses in ARPA ordering, using pseudo NRS names for sites not on JANET - eg user@host.dom.co.uk. The trouble is that some folk think that these pseudo names are registered in JANET's NRS when they are not (even though the addresses aren't in JANET domain order anyway). The folk at UCL rebuild their address tables from the NRS and they usually take extra information on these pseudo-names from UKC. Your mail shouldn't have been bounced by UCL. Perhaps you could contact the UCL postmaster to see what went wrong? Perhaps their address tables were faulty when you tried sending mail. You could also try an explicit UUCP route - "...!seismo!mcvax!ukc!psg.npl.co.uk!user" will work. Jim ARPA: jim%cs.strath.ac.uk@ucl-cs.arpa, jim@cs.strath.ac.uk UUCP: jim@strath-cs.uucp, ...!seismo!mcvax!ukc!strath-cs!jim JANET: jim@uk.ac.strath.cs "JANET domain ordering is swapped around so's there'd be some use for rev(1)!"
pc@ukc.ac.uk (R.P.A.Collinson) (09/12/86)
UCL do not understand references to UK style domain names which are not registered with the Name Registration Scheme in the UK. This is reasonable behaviour. Currently, the UUCP network in the UK is in transition between the `old style' <name>.uucp way of doing things and a completely domain based system ending in the ARPA registered domain .uk. UCL do understand the `uucp' names for all UK sites (they send them to ukc to deal with :-) ). The UUCP maps which we put out from ukc reflect the transition. Every site has a uucp name and where relevent (ie. where the name is registered) an alias to the uucp name is given as an alias in the pathalias data. It is also true to say that the mail system at UKC understands the unregistered name (and some nasty combinations in between) so the address user%unregisteredname%ukc.ac.uk@cs.ucl.ac.uk will work. I hope that we will be moving more quickly with registration of all UK sites soon. PS Other countries do have the sense to drive on the left. It makes it much easier to get the sword out, you know.