leff@smu.UUCP (11/28/83)
#N:smu:20700002:000:3738
smu!leff Nov 27 11:05:00 1983
I had a trauma with Dreyfus Liquid Assets regarding IRA's, signature
guaranty's etc. It might be of interest since it probably applies to
most of these money market funds.
When I was comeing here from New York, I sent Dreyfus a letter saying
I would like the balance of my account as a check. I wanted some
extra money in case there were some special funds. I received the
check and gave it to the bank down here to cash. About fourty
days later, my bank calls me telling me that Dreyfus refused to honor
the check as there was no signature guaranty. A signature guaranty
is a guaranty from a commercial bank, a savings bank associated with
Automated Checking House (or something like that) or a registered
broker.
My questions are:
a. how does one go about getting such a signature guaranty if one doesn't
do business with the any of the above institutions.
b. had I written a Dreyfus money market check for that amount or
greater they would have cashed it. What is the difference between
my writing my name on a Dreyfus money market check and the
number $1000.00 and signing a check they gave me for $1000.00.
c. why didn't they simply refuse to send me the check if there was
no signature guaranty on the original letter instead of giving me
a check that would bounce. That could have been quite embarassing.
In any event, I had gotten myself settled and decided the money would
be best put in an IRA. I assumed that the check was in limbo since I
got some computer generated letter from their president saying that my
balance was zero and that they would hold open my account for a year
so I could think about putting money in it. I thus sent them a letter
with a) a check from my account back in New York to put in m new IRA
account, b) another such check to put in a new Keogh (I earned some money
as a consultant) and c) instructions to retrieve the money from limbo
and add it to my IRA.
A little while later I got a call from a Mark Lacombe at Dreyfus saying
that I couldn't open up a Keogh since it was already after the year end
and they were sending me back a check. He also was having someone look
into the money in limbo matter. I then sent him a letter thanking him
for his time and reminding him to follow up on the money in limbo
situation.
I never heard from them again and my mother got upset when she got a
statement saying that the $1000.00 that was in limbo was now back in
my original account. She contacted Mark Lacombe back at Dreyfus
who said the money was still there since there was no signature
guranty on the request for a transfer. (Why do they need a signature
guaranty to transfer money from IRA status from non-IRA status! Its the
same damn company. (Sorry for the flames.))
I simply wrote out a Dreyfus check from non IRA account to IRA account
sending it to Dreyfus
and settled the whole matter without any further ado.
Moral:
I found out from someone who is experience in these matters the best
way to close out an account in a money market
fund is to write a check for almost the same amount as that is in the
account. You can never get it exact as the interest is compounded
daily. Then send them a letter asking them to send you the two or three
dollars that is left. He said that they will send you a small check
without the check guaranty requirement. If you don't send them such
a letter they will send you a letter every six months reminding you that
you have a very small balance and would you please put some more money
in it. In two years they will send you a check anyway. (I put some
additional money in the non IRA account later so that didn't become
a problem so I have no way whether to verify those last claims.)pvl@houxh.UUCP (P.LAMASTER) (11/29/83)
When I bought stock, I listed it in both my name and my wife's
name so that *either* of us could sell it, if need be. When it
came time to sell it, I was told that we had to have *both* signatures
and that there was *no* wording of multi-named stock (aside from
a trust arrangement) that was an either/or arrangement (as opposed
to *and). The connection to the money market account referred to
in the other article is that, since I was dealing with company stock,
I could get *my* signature guaranteed at work, but we had to go to
our local bank to get my wife's signature guaranteed. We eventually
got the stock sold, but it was a hassle.
Anybody else surprised that stock *can't* be an either/or listing?
Pete LaMaster BTL NJ (201)949-0040 ihnp4!houxh!pvlrowan@parsec.UUCP (11/30/83)
#R:smu:20700002:parsec:36500002:000:1279
parsec!rowan Nov 29 11:28:00 1983
It is my understanding that the legend JTWRS (Joint Tenants
With Rights of Survivorship) does allow one of the named parties to
sell the stock. It certainly does in the case of the death of one of
the owners. This method of registering stock has estate tax advantages
in some states (most of us do not have estates large enough to worry
about federal estate taxes). I was advised while living in
Pennsylvania to register stock in this form.
My question is why not open a brokerage account? Then you can
forget about having to safeguard stock certificates, delivering them
for sale, guaranteeing signatures, etc. Most people have bank
accounts, why not a brokerage account? When I want to buy or sell stock
I get on the phone to my broker and my order is executed the same day.
If you are concerned about costs, some brokers still offer accounts
without service fees. Like selecting a bank you need to shop around.
Discount brokers offer similar accounts. I can going for days about
this but I won't, I am sold. Surely there are others on the net with
differing views of brokerage accounts and I am sure there are war
stories to relate. How about it?
Steve Rowan
Parsec Scientific Computer Corp.
{allegra,ihnp4,uiucdcs,ctvax}!parsec!rowan
(214)669-3700jrf@hp-pcd.UUCP (James Fontenot) (12/01/83)
#R:smu:20700002:hp-pcd:33700001:000:306 hp-pcd!jrf Nov 30 12:09:00 1983 I liquidated my Merrill Lynch money market account with no problem. I simply mailed them a letter requesting they close my account and send me the proceeds. They mailed a check (which was no problem to cash) that arrived within days. Dryfus take notice. People who are still with Dryfus take notice.
pvl@houxh.UUCP (P.LAMASTER) (12/01/83)
> It is my understanding that the legend JTWRS (Joint Tenants > With Rights of Survivorship) does allow one of the named parties to > sell the stock. It was *my* impression, too. That, however, is how the stock was registered (JTWRS And Not As Tenants in Common) and I was still required to have *both* signatures. I was *very* surprised. > My question is why not open a brokerage account? I agree. In this case, however, the stock was a distribution from a company plan and I was selling it through the company (to get reduced brokerage fees). In support of your suggestion, I later sold some more of the stock, similarly registered, through my normal broker, and he had no problems about accepting the signed certificate through the mail *without* the guarantees. Pete LaMaster BTL NJ (201)949-0040 ihnp4!houxh!pvl
marcum@fortune.UUCP (12/06/83)
I have purchased stock with a good friend (a former POSSLQ, impilcations valid). I seem to recall setting it up so that either of us could sell the stock, strange though that sounds. Alan M. Marcum Fortune Systems, Redwood City, California ...!hplabs!hpda!fortune!rhino!marcum