jeff@dciem.UUCP (Jeff Richardson) (03/11/86)
I really think the Leafs should trade Vaive now. I've looked around to
see what deals I think they could make. They seem to want an experienced
defenseman, but I think they need a decent right winger or they would have
a big hole at that position. Here's my team-by-team analysis:
CHICAGO, ST. LOUIS, MINNESOTA & DETROIT: Forget it. Vaive is certain to
play much better with his new team because his main problem with Toronto
is that he's lost his desire to play for them. Trading him to a team in
their own division could spell disaster.
BOSTON: They blew a chance to get Mike O'Connell, who is probably the type of
guy they wanted, but the Bruins could not afford to give up a good defenseman
without getting another one in return. Vaive for Crowder has potential.
Both teams may be a little apprehensive about that one because Crowder is an
agressive two-way winger who would likely help the Leafs with his defensive
skills and his attitude, but they may be concerned that he can't score enough
goals without a centre like Ken Linseman to feed him. The Bruins on the other
hand, would be worried about losing Crowder's defensive skills and they would
wonder if Vaive is still capable of scoring a lot of goals. Crowder has more
goals than Vaive this season, but if Vaive was on that line, he would probably
get a lot more, so if the Bruins think they need someone like Vaive to compete
with the Naslunds and Goulets in their division, they might go for it, and I
think it would be good for the Leafs.
BUFFALO: I'm sure they'd love to have Vaive, but a deal with the Leafs is
difficult. I think Foligno is too old to help the Leafs, and none of their
other right wingers are good enough to interest the Leafs. They have a few
good experienced defensive defensemen, but the Sabres always seem to be
trying to improve their defence, so I don't think they'd want to part with
them. Phil Housley is probably available, but with all his defensive problems
I think the Leafs should stay away from him. Sweetening the pot with a high
draft choice is not something I think either team would want to do.
CALGARY: Not much chance here. The Flames are overloaded on right wing
already. The way Mullen's been playing for them, they wouldn't trade him
for God, and I don't think the Leafs would want Lanny McDonald back. Their
only experienced defenseman worth getting is Reinhart, but he's too much of
a question mark with all his injury problems.
EDMONTON & PHILADELPHIA: Too strong and stable to make a major trade like
this. I doubt Vaive would fit in with their plans anyway.
HARTFORD: I was correct in assuming that Hartford was willing to trade Risto
Siltanen, but the deal I came up with there was Vaive for Siltanen and Dineen,
and I didn't think the Whalers would be willing to part with Dineen since he's
young and could get a lot better, and I didn't think Toronto would want to
throw in anything else to make it more attractive. The Whalers may still be
interested, but they can't afford to give up a defenseman anymore, nobody
else is proven enough to trade Vaive for, except untouchables Francis and
Turgeon.
LOS ANGELES, NEW JERSEY, PITTSBURGH & VANCOUVER: No experienced defensemen or
right wingers that are good enough to consider, except maybe Dave Taylor who is
too old or Tony Tanti, who's probably too one-dimensional, but he's younger
so he may be good as a last resort. I don't know if the Canucks would be
willing, though.
MONTREAL: Might have gone for it last season, but now that Naslund has
become the big goal scorer they needed, I don't think they'll be interested,
especially since the Leafs would probably want Chelios or Robinson.
NY ISLANDERS: Pat Flatley is the obvious choice, and probably a good one,
but the Leafs would want an experienced defenseman too. Ken Morrow seems
to be a good candidate, but is he completely over his injuries? I don't
think the Leafs would want Persson, and I don't know enough about Jonsson to
know whether he would help the Leafs or whether the Islanders would be willing
to throw him in with Flatley. Remember, they have Mike Bossy so they won't
be willing to give too much for another high scoring right winger.
NY RANGERS: They should be desperate for Vaive because they're very weak
on right wing, and they have a lot of experienced defensemen. Ruotsalainen
isn't good enough defensively, and I don't know about Greschner. If Barry
Beck is over his injury problems, that may be a good deal for both teams.
It may sound a little prepostorous to think that the Rangers would give up
Beck, but he hasn't played much this year and their defence has been
excellent anyway. Their offence stinks though, so they may be willing to do
something drastic to improve it. The Leafs couldn't afford the trade though
unless they knew they could count on a healthy Beck.
QUEBEC: They probably want Vaive badly because they're weak on right wing,
but they can't afford to weaken their defence corps and the only right winger
they have to give is Anton Stastny, but the Leafs already have one Stastny
too many.
WASHINGTON: There is a lot of potential here. Scott Stevens and Larry Murphy
are experienced defensemen that the Leafs would probably like to have.
Murphy isn't good enough to trade one-for-one. Stevens probably is, but trading
him would be a major change to their highly successful defence. Because of
their high position in the standings, I don't think they'd do it unless their
really convinced that Vaive would get them the cup. Besides, trading a
defenceman for Vaive would leave the Caps overloaded on right wing.
I think they might give Gartner for Vaive. Gartner is having a bad year by
his standards. So is Vaive, but the Caps may want him for his leadership and
character. I have a feeling that the Leafs may not want to trade Vaive for
Gartner, but it looks like an even trade talent-wise, and they're about the
same age, so it may be the best they can do.
WINNIPEG: They're fairly strong on right wing now, so a trade would have to
be either Paul MacLean or Ray Neufeld plus a defenceman for Vaive. However,
I don't think they can afford to give up Carlyle or Marois, who are the only
two defencemen the Leafs might want.
MY RECOMMENDATION: To Washington for Stevens or Boston for Crowder.
Jeff
--
Jeff Richardson, DCIEM, Toronto (416) 635-2073
{linus,ihnp4,uw-beaver,floyd}!utcsri!dciem!jeff
{allegra,ihnp4,linus,decvax}!utzoo!dciem!jeffcjsgro@watdragon.UUCP (Carlo Sgro) (03/14/86)
In article <1812@dciem.UUCP> jeff@dciem.UUCP (Jeff Richardson) writes: >I really think the Leafs should trade Vaive now. Well, it's too late now. >I've looked around to >see what deals I think they could make. They seem to want an experienced >defenseman, but I think they need a decent right winger or they would have >a big hole at that position. Here's my team-by-team analysis: > >BOSTON: They blew a chance to get Mike O'Connell, who is probably the type of >guy they wanted, but the Bruins could not afford to give up a good defenseman >without getting another one in return. Vaive for Crowder has potential. >... so if the Bruins think they need someone like Vaive to compete >with the Naslunds and Goulets in their division, they might go for it, and I >think it would be good for the Leafs. Let's not forget that Boston got burned in the Derlago deal (which was a surprise to me). They may be hesitant now. >BUFFALO: I'm sure they'd love to have Vaive, but a deal with the Leafs is >difficult. ... I don't think that you'll *ever* see a deal between these two teams due to geographical problems and pride. >CALGARY: Not much chance here. The Flames are overloaded on right wing >already. The way Mullen's been playing for them, they wouldn't trade him >for God, and I don't think the Leafs would want Lanny McDonald back. Their >only experienced defenseman worth getting is Reinhart, but he's too much of >a question mark with all his injury problems. I would love to see Paul Reinhart with the Leafs if he was healthy. Likewise for Al MacInnis. >EDMONTON & PHILADELPHIA: Too strong and stable to make a major trade like >this. I doubt Vaive would fit in with their plans anyway. But I think that Vaive could probably perform the best for them. >LOS ANGELES, NEW JERSEY, PITTSBURGH & VANCOUVER: No experienced defensemen or >right wingers that are good enough to consider, except maybe Dave Taylor who is >too old or Tony Tanti, who's probably too one-dimensional, but he's younger >so he may be good as a last resort. I don't know if the Canucks would be >willing, though. I feel that either of these deals would be a bad one for the Leafs. Taylor is definitely too old and I don't think that Tanti would fit in well at all with the Leafs (who would :-)) due to his lack of aggressiveness. >NY ISLANDERS: Pat Flatley is the obvious choice, and probably a good one, >but the Leafs would want an experienced defenseman too. Ken Morrow seems >to be a good candidate, but is he completely over his injuries? I don't >think the Leafs would want Persson, and I don't know enough about Jonsson to >know whether he would help the Leafs or whether the Islanders would be willing >to throw him in with Flatley. Remember, they have Mike Bossy so they won't >be willing to give too much for another high scoring right winger. I don't think that the Isles would be willing to give up a talent like Flatley AND a defenseman too. Besides, I don't think that Morrow would be a good risk and I don't like Persson. The Islanders don't really have a great enough need for Vaive to make an equitable trade. >NY RANGERS: They should be desperate for Vaive because they're very weak >on right wing, and they have a lot of experienced defensemen. Ruotsalainen >isn't good enough defensively, and I don't know about Greschner. If Barry >Beck is over his injury problems, that may be a good deal for both teams. >It may sound a little prepostorous to think that the Rangers would give up >Beck, but he hasn't played much this year and their defence has been >excellent anyway. Their offence stinks though, so they may be willing to do >something drastic to improve it. The Leafs couldn't afford the trade though >unless they knew they could count on a healthy Beck. Vaive for Beck (straight up) would be totally unfair to the Leafs. Nylund seems to be a lesser-talented Beck clone so let's give him time. I don't really see that a good deal could come out of this anyway. >QUEBEC: >... but the Leafs already have one Stastny too many. I really don't think that the presence of Marion Stastny is hurting the team at all. He has talent; I wish that they'd let him use it. >WASHINGTON: There is a lot of potential here. Scott Stevens and Larry Murphy >are experienced defensemen that the Leafs would probably like to have. >Murphy isn't good enough to trade one-for-one. Stevens probably is, but trading >him would be a major change to their highly successful defence. Because of >their high position in the standings, I don't think they'd do it unless their >really convinced that Vaive would get them the cup. Besides, trading a >defenceman for Vaive would leave the Caps overloaded on right wing. >I think they might give Gartner for Vaive. Gartner is having a bad year by >his standards. So is Vaive, but the Caps may want him for his leadership and >character. I have a feeling that the Leafs may not want to trade Vaive for >Gartner, but it looks like an even trade talent-wise, and they're about the >same age, so it may be the best they can do. If the Leafs could get Scott Stevens from Washington, they should go for it. He's an excellent defenseman and team leader. I would not go for Mike Gartner. >WINNIPEG: They're fairly strong on right wing now, so a trade would have to >be either Paul MacLean or Ray Neufeld plus a defenceman for Vaive. However, >I don't think they can afford to give up Carlyle or Marois, who are the only >two defencemen the Leafs might want. If they did trade away any defense, Ferguson should be fired. He's personally ruined that team. >MY RECOMMENDATION: To Washington for Stevens or Boston for Crowder. MY RECOMMENDATION: They won't be able to get enough for him now. Hold onto him for a while and see who is frustrated in the playoffs. A July deal sounds best. -- Carlo Sgro ...![ihnp4||decvax||allegra||clyde||utzoo]!watmath!watdragon!cjsgro "ihnp4 Express: Overnight to the USA or you don't pay!"
jeff@dciem.UUCP (Jeff Richardson) (03/20/86)
> In article <1812@dciem.UUCP> jeff@dciem.UUCP (Jeff Richardson) writes: > >I really think the Leafs should trade Vaive now. > > Well, it's too late now. > .... > >MY RECOMMENDATION: To Washington for Stevens or Boston for Crowder. > MY RECOMMENDATION: They won't be able to get enough for him now. Hold onto > him for a while and see who is frustrated in the playoffs. A July deal > sounds best. > > Carlo Sgro I've left out the body of my article about trade possibilities for Vaive and of Carlo's analysis of it, because I'm sure those of you who were patient enough to read the first two articles don't want to see them again. Basically I agree with pretty well everything Carlo said, except that he mentioned Al MacInnis as a possible trade with Calgary. I haven't seen MacInnis play enough to know whether that would be a good deal, but I don't think the Leafs would go for it because they would want a defenceman with more experience. I guess the relevance of my article was greatly lessened by the fact that it probably didn't make the rounds until after the trade deadline. The way things have gone since then, I'm glad the Leafs' management didn't see it in time either (of course, they probably already thought about everything I said anyway). Carlo's final analysis, that they probably couldn't get enough for him now, was probably right. But at the time I wrote the article, I really thought that they should trade him before this season's deadline. I thought he had lost the desire to play for Toronto, based on the captaincy incident, his not playing up to par despite having a centre who is a better playmaker than his old centre, all the suspicious looking little injuries he had earlier in the season, and him being quoted recently as saying a trade might not be too bad. I figured that if they didn't get rid of him, his bad attitude would rub off on his young, impressionable teammates who look to him for leadership, and it would ruin their chances of doing anything in this year's playoffs or maybe even have a longer lasting negative effect. However, Vaive's attitude and his play seem to have improved drastically since the trade deadline passed, so I think it's safe to say that I was wrong. Not only that, my prediction is that Minnesota will take first place and blow away Toronto in the first round of the playoffs anyway. Toronto would have a good chance against Chicago or St. Louis, but Minnesota has looked too good lately. -- Jeff Richardson, DCIEM, Toronto (416) 635-2073 {linus,ihnp4,uw-beaver,floyd}!utcsri!dciem!jeff {allegra,ihnp4,linus,decvax}!utzoo!dciem!jeff