jpj@mss.UUCP (J. P. Jenal) (05/08/85)
The letters have stopped coming in - here is a summary of the responses
that I received. Thanks to all who took the time to respond.
One general trend seemed to come through - the problems with bad disk
blocks are real, some people have gotten burned by them, and their seems to
be a great deal of interest on this net in things produced by AT&T! What a
novel concept. Alas, the powers that be are seriously locked into going
with what is perceived as the safe alternative. Sigh. Good luck to all
who follow.
Please note that the opinions that follow are those of the authors listed
and not (necessarily) those of Mayfield Senior School, the Roman Catholic
Church or any other sentient organization. 'Nuf said.
Cheers...
Jim Jenal (aka ...!scgvaxd!mss!jpj)
Mayfield Senior School ( " ...!ihnp4!mss!jpj)
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From: ihnp4!cbosgd!mark (Mark Horton)
To: mss!jpj
Subject: PC/AT
Jim - there are LOTS of rumors about the AT disks failing early.
I can't even find an AT in a store with an official IBM AT hard
disk in it - apparently IBM has withdrawn the hard disk model
until they get their act together.
Mark
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From: ihnp4!cornell!doug (Douglas Campbell)
Subject: Re: IBM PC/AT info needed...
Nobody knows why the AT hard disks sometimes completely fail. When they
do, it is dramatic and permanent over the whole disk. I don't have any
figures on the percentage that fail, but I would guess no more than 10%
do. In any case, IBM has just started shipping ATs with hard drives from
a different company. CMI (Computer Memories Incorporated) makes the
originals, and these are still being shipped.
Doug Campbell
doug@cornell.{UUCP|ARPA}
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From: ihnp4!uiucdcs!uiucuxc.Uiuc.ARPA!german (Gregory German)
Subject: PC/ATs
I am working on a $12.5 million grant from IBM to the University of Illinois.
I have checked out and installed about 40 PC/ATs and have worked on one
since last September. I also get most of the campus AT problems thrown at
me and I know of at least 150 PC/ATs that people bought through the U of I
computer store before a lawsuit closed them down. Here is what I have
observed:
1 out-right disk failure. The guy never got it to work well enough to get
any data on the disk.
About 10% (including my own unit) reported the dreaded hard-disk problem.
What I noticed was I was sometimes not able to access a file. It worked
fine most the time, but sometimes I would get the message "cannot access",
or "general failure reading drive c:", get that a couple of times and you
find yourself reading about the back-up command. I never lost any data.
The Advanced Diagnostics for the AT that comes with the has a utility which
will allow you to run a surface scan of your disk and mark any bad or
marginal sectors they missed at the factory. I haven't had any trouble for
months. I think the problem was with CMI who built the disks and not with
IBM. I also have not seen any problems with the 14 machines we just got so
whatever problems they had before are probably solved now.
Greg German
[ Interesting side note - since I started this, I have had two 40 mb drives
installed on my Pixel. One drive has behaved perfectly but the other, the
root drive which is partitioned exactly in half, has given me an enormous
collection of error messages. Since /usr/spool lives out on this device, I
sometimes get messages from mail suggesting that I cannot open my mail file,
which *always* has something in it. No comfort, no joy. - jpj - ]
UUCP: {ihnp4,pur-ee,convex}!uiucdcs!uiucuxc!german
ARPANET: german%uiucuxc@uiuc.arpa
CSNET: german%uiucuxc@uiuc.csnet
US Mail: Univ of Illinois, CSO, 1304 W Springfield Ave, Urbana, IL 61801
AT&T: 217-333-8293
--------------------------------
From: ihnp4!pegasus!mel
Re: IBM PC/AT
I have been using one for most of my PC related work since Christmas. I
turn it off every night, and on every weekday. I have about 12Meg of data
on the 20Meg hard disk, and that seems to stay about constant (I do a lot of
disk work, but tend to erase stuff I am through with). I have had no trouble
of any sort with the AT or its hard disk. I can't afford the 1.2Meg floppies
(either the media itself or the time to play with them), so only use the
floppy reader to load in things from outside. I backup the hard disk file
by file as I create them over a comm line to a VAX UNIX. The box itself is
way too big to be a "personal computer" since it doesn't fit on the desk. The
keyboard is great, a big improvement over the regular PC. My impression is
that the AT is a solid, high quality unit. Good luck.
------------------------------
From: scgvaxd!trwrb!trwspp!spp2!jhull (Jeff Hull)
Subject: Re: IBM PC/AT info needed...
Jim,
There are indeed problems with the PC/AT hard disks & no, IBM
hasn't solved them yet. If you need machines soon & like the AT, get
them without hard disks & add some from a 3rd party vendor, Tallgrass
Technologies & Megavault have good reputations. (They also have hard
disks of much larger capacities if that's important to you.)
IBM's networking isn't much for their smaller computers.
PCNet is something to stay away from & isn't SNA anyway. If you are
interested in a micro that will be compatible with IBM's major
products, you probably need to wait until their new mystery machine is
released (currently rumored to be next year - a different hardware
architecture with a proprietary operating system).
Good luck. Dealing with IBM you'll need it (this's just my
prejudice showing :-)
Blessed Be,
Jeff Hull {decvax,hplabs,ihnp4,scdrdcf,ucbvax}
13817 Yukon Ave. trwrb!trwspp!spp2!jhull
Hawthorne, CA 90250
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From: ihnp4!ut-sally!cyb-eng!topher
To: ut-sally!ihnp4!scgvaxd!mss!jpj, topher
Subject: Re: IBM PC/AT info needed...
Here's one data point for your study: we've had an AT for oh, about 4
months now, and have had to get the hard disk replaced once.
Cheers,
Topher Eliot Cyb Systems, Austin, TX
{gatech,ihnp4,nbires,seismo,ucb-vax}!ut-sally!cyb-eng!topher
---------------------------------
From: ihnp4!seismo!uwvax!uwmacc!curtis (Alan Curtis)
Subject: Re: IBM PC/AT info needed...
Organization: U Wisconsin-Madison Academic Computing Ctr
If you get a significant number of replies concerning the AT and its reputed
disk problems, would you mind posting a summary back onto the NET? I will
most probably be purchasing an AT shortly and any additional info is always
nice.
Thanks,
Alan Curtis
Madison Academic Computing Center
-------------------------------
From: scgvaxd!sdcrdcf!vax135!somewhere!mdg
Subject: Re: IBM PC/AT info needed...
Jim,
consider the new AT&T PC-7300, the one I think they're calling the
Unix PC. Cost less than a PC/AT and is easy to use. Some of the
development was done "near" here. And AT&T's networking plans weren't
announced to be available in more then a year, They're available now-
that's one of the areas that I work in.
Michael D. Gale-just a consultant here- my paycheck doesn't even
say AT&T.
--Usual disclaimers about this transmission just being the result of
line noise.--
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From: scgvaxd!sdcrdcf!mcnc!idis!cadre!psuvax1!burdvax!sjuvax!jss (J. Shapiro)
Subject: Re: IBM PC/AT info needed...
The rumors your people have heard about bad disk blocks are
regrettably true. The PC/AT has had some substantial problems along these
lines. You might wish to look into AT&T's machines for IBM
compatibles, and particularly for the networking, as IBM's networking
doesn't really work yet.
Jon Shapiro