demillo@uwmacc.UUCP (Rob DeMillo) (04/24/86)
Help from the net-folk, if you please:
I am in dire straits, and I hope that someone can help. I have an IBM-XT,
and I would like a public domain communications program that can perform both
KERMIT and XMODEM up/downloads, and can emulate a terminal that *works* with
*all* UNIX programs. (vi, for instance.) Things I have tried:
KERMIT --> Works fine, except there is no XMODEM protocol
PROCOMM --> Terrific user interface and menu systems. Also
performs great up/downloads, but the emulations
are pretty awful. Try using it with vi sometime,
its amusing. (Yes, I have version 2.20)
PIBTERM --> Pretty icky user interface, but other than that
it is the same as PROCOMM. (Good transfers, but
none of the emulators work properly.)
Anyone out there have any other suggestions? Please email or post responses. If
there is any interest, I will summarize for people....
Thanks in advance....
--
--- Rob DeMillo
Madison Academic Computer Center
...seismo!uwvax!uwmacc!demillo
"If you can't trust wimp lawyers anymore,
who can you trust...?"
-- Mildred Krebs mojo@kepler.UUCP (Morris Jones) (04/25/86)
demillo@uwmacc.UUCP (Rob DeMillo) writes: > PROCOMM --> Terrific user interface and menu systems. Also > performs great up/downloads, but the emulations > are pretty awful. Try using it with vi sometime, > its amusing. (Yes, I have version 2.20) > PIBTERM --> Pretty icky user interface, but other than that > it is the same as PROCOMM. (Good transfers, but > none of the emulators work properly.) I've noticed exactly the same thing you have. I've been using Procomm because its vt100 works pretty well for my girlfriend calling a VAX using "All-in-one" application software. Otherwise I've been terribly disappointed by the terminal emulations. I didn't realize it was so difficult! (In Procomm even the ANSI-BBS emulation doesn't quite work. If he would just get out of the way and let ANSI.SYS deal with it, I could write a working termcap.) I wonder if there's anything to be found in the professionally developed software that does any better? -- Mojo ... Morris Jones, MicroPro Product Development {lll-crg,ptsfa,dual,well,pyramid}!micropro!kepler!mojo
rwb@cher.UUCP (04/27/86)
> Help from the net-folk, if you please: > > I am in dire straits, and I hope that someone can help. I have an IBM-XT, > and I would like a public domain communications program that can perform both > KERMIT and XMODEM up/downloads, and can emulate a terminal that *works*.... > --- Rob DeMillo I've been using a PD program called PC-VT, ver 8.3. It does a good job of emulating a DEC vt100. The interface is not as slick as Procomm, but the terminal emulation works, and it supports XMODEM (which I've used) and KERMIT (which I have not used). Bob Beveridge Benetics Corp. p.s.: I keep hearing about what a great program Procomm is; I'm glad that someone else has noticed that NONE of the terminal emulations seem to work....
hes@ecsvax (04/28/86)
> demillo@uwmacc.UUCP (Rob DeMillo) writes: > > PROCOMM --> Terrific user interface and menu systems. Also > > performs great up/downloads, but the emulations > > are pretty awful. Try using it with vi sometime, > > its amusing. (Yes, I have version 2.20) > > PIBTERM --> Pretty icky user interface, but other than that > > it is the same as PROCOMM. (Good transfers, but > > none of the emulators work properly.) > > I've noticed exactly the same thing you have. I've been using Procomm > because its vt100 works pretty well for my girlfriend calling a VAX > using "All-in-one" application software. Otherwise I've been terribly > disappointed by the terminal emulations. I didn't realize it was so > difficult! ... > > I wonder if there's anything to be found in the professionally developed > software that does any better? > > -- > Mojo > ... Morris Jones, MicroPro Product Development > {lll-crg,ptsfa,dual,well,pyramid}!micropro!kepler!mojo I've been using PC-VT Version 8.3 which is user supported software done by Mark Divecchio (sp?). It does a good job of emulating a VT100, and works well with the unix vt100 termcap for vi, and also work with VMS. It also emulates the VT-52, but I've never tried that. --henry schaffer
emv@umix.UUCP (Edward Vielmetti) (04/28/86)
I too had problems with the terminal emulation with Procomm 2.2, but their 2.3 version seems to work quite a bit better. It's been out more than a month or so, and should have made it to a local public bbs or user group by now. Edward Vielmetti Computing Center Microgroup University of Michigan (313) 747-3744 emv%UMich-MTS.Mailnet@MIT-Multics.ARPA
jay@ethos (04/28/86)
I've heard that XTALK works perfectly, but I'll have to admit that I've
never tried it. The problems that you're having with vi are hapening on my
amiga too. (used procomm, now using online, same symptoms, but less with
online) Of course the easiest way is to find a terminal emulator without
terminal emulation, then use the ANSI.SYS driver.
Oh yeah, one more thing, like the previous messages say, PLEASE post to
your own group, I'm getting tired of seeing messages for IBM PoCs in
net.micro. Believe it or not, the rest of the world could care less about the
PC.
--
Jay Denebeim "One world, one egg, one basket."
{seismo,decvax,ihnp4}!mcnc!rti-sel!ethos!jay
Deep Thought, ZNode #42 300/1200/2400 919-471-6436akk2@ur-tut.UUCP (A Kacker) (04/28/86)
In article <118@cher.UUCP> rwb@cher.UUCP (Bob Beveridge) writes: >> KERMIT and XMODEM up/downloads, and can emulate a terminal that *works*.... >> --- Rob DeMillo > >I've been using a PD program called PC-VT, ver 8.3. It does a good >job of emulating a DEC vt100. The interface is not as slick as Procomm, > > Bob Beveridge > Benetics Corp. > >p.s.: I keep hearing about what a great program Procomm is; I'm glad that >someone else has noticed that NONE of the terminal emulations seem to work.... This is just an aside folks. If you want to find out just how good a job of vt100 emulation a particular program does, just use it to call the Digital on-line order number. (1-800-DEC-DEMO). -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ A.Kacker UUCP : {allegra|seismo|decvax}!rochester!ur-tut!akk2 BITNET : HNUC@UORVM =========================================================================
mjw@aluxp (05/01/86)
In article <600@kepler.UUCP> mojo@kepler.UUCP (Morris Jones) writes: > >I wonder if there's anything to be found in the professionally developed >software that does any better? > >Mojo >... Morris Jones, MicroPro Product Development >{lll-crg,ptsfa,dual,well,pyramid}!micropro!kepler!mojo Just a mild flame. I find it very interesting that you seem to be indicating that persons/companies who chose to distribute their products as 'shareware' are not 'professional' developers. Does MicroPro encourage you to attack this concept? I happen to believe that products such as PROCOMM, PIBTERM, PC WRITE, CED, FANSI-CONSOLE, etc. are some of the best in their performance vs. price ratios. Most of these products are revised at short intervals when users report problems and the corrections are available to all within a short amount of time on LOCAL, PUBLIC resources. The key point here is that the authors of these products communicate DIRECTLY with their users and are RECEPTIVE to their customers' suggestions for improvement as well as correction of problem areas. Users' need not wait for the next major release for bugs to be fixed or surrender a disk to get an update. MicroPro does market some very good software. In my opinion it is incredibly overpriced; I tend to avoid it whenever possible and deliberately look for a 'shareware' product that will perform the needed function (even if I can get my employer to pick up the tab). To all the authors of software distributed as 'shareware', keep up the good work and thank you for your faith in the user community! -- Regards, AT&T Bell Laboratories Michael Weber 1255 South Cedar Crest Boulevard ihnp4!aluxp!mjw Allentown, Pennsylvania 18103
caf@omen.UUCP (Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX) (05/02/86)
In article <270@ur-tut.UUCP> akk2@ur-tut.UUCP (A Kacker) writes: >>p.s.: I keep hearing about what a great program Procomm is; I'm glad that >>someone else has noticed that NONE of the terminal emulations seem to work.... > > >This is just an aside folks. If you want to find out just how good a job >of vt100 emulation a particular program does, just use it to call the >Digital on-line order number. (1-800-DEC-DEMO). > The Demo version of Pro-YAM properly displays the DEC store demo, and has XMODEM, YMODEM, ZMODEM, B, Kermit and SuperKermit protocols. It can be downloaded from TeleGodzilla in the file YAMDEMO.LQR. Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX ...!tektronix!reed!omen!caf CIS:70715,131 Author of Professional-YAM communications Tools for PCDOS and Unix Omen Technology Inc 17505-V NW Sauvie Island Road Portland OR 97231 Voice: 503-621-3406 TeleGodzilla: 621-3746 300/1200 L.sys entry for omen: omen Any ACU 1200 1-503-621-3746 se:--se: link ord: Giznoid in:--in: uucp omen!/usr/spool/uucppublic/FILES lists all uucp-able files, updated hourly
cjdb@sphinx.UChicago.UUCP (Charles Blair) (05/06/86)
Spend the money and buy Crosstalk. Supports Kermit (have used), XMODEM (have not used), and emulates a number of terminals. I emulate a VT-100 on a DEC-20 to do Emacs and spreadsheets, and a TVI-920 to emulate a 3270 (I'm going through a protocol converter) to do work on an Amdahl. You can run other programs from within Crosstalk (like your editor, if you have enough memory). Also, Microstuf's technical support people, when their phone isn't busy, are quite helpful. I've used a version of Procomm, and didn't seem to find a "script" facility like Crosstalk's for automating logins. Is there a version that supports such a facility? -- Charles Blair ..!ihnp4!gargoyle!sphinx!cjdb The University of Chicago lib.cb%chip@UChicago.Bitnet
peter@baylor.UUCP (Peter da Silva) (05/09/86)
> I've noticed exactly the same thing you have. I've been using Procomm > because its vt100 works pretty well for my girlfriend calling a VAX > using "All-in-one" application software. Otherwise I've been terribly > disappointed by the terminal emulations. I didn't realize it was so > difficult! (In Procomm even the ANSI-BBS emulation doesn't quite work. > If he would just get out of the way and let ANSI.SYS deal with it, I > could write a working termcap.) > > I wonder if there's anything to be found in the professionally developed > software that does any better? Nope, it's worse. That's why I wrote my own terminal program, "Smartty". It emulates a VT52 well enough to fool VMS, but for some reason I still can't get the VT100 mode to match... I'm supporting all the escape sequences that are meaningful "by the book", but I still can't use EDIT/EDT in VT100 mode. On the other hand, it works great with VI. I've uploaded it to a few BBS systems around here. Other advantages to Smartty: * It's very nearly modeless. The keyboard is live in all setup and dialling menus unless you're actually typing in a file name or a macro. This way you can play with your setup parameters while pounding the keyboard. Also, all menus use the same set of keys to select & use entries. * It will (with a little bit of luck: MS-DOS brain damage can cause problems) download and communicate over both ports at the same time. * It emulates ADM3a, Tvi912, VT52, and VT100 (with some extra codes for insert/delete line/character) terminals. * It will dial (though not repeat-dial) just about any modem you can think of. * It's well behaved: it uses BIOS screen I/O for speed but the only hardware hacks it uses are those necessary for the Async ports (more MS-DOS breain damage). * Finally, I'm more than willing to listen and add features I find believable. And if anyone knows what weird things VMS is doing to my VT100 mode, please let me know! I can't upload it here, but if you'll leave me mail I'll tell you how to get hold of it. -- -- Peter da Silva -- UUCP: ...!shell!{baylor,graffiti}!peter; MCI: PDASILVA; CIS: 70216,1076
ljz@well.UUCP (Lloyd Zusman) (05/10/86)
In article <135@sphinx.UChicago.UUCP> cjdb@sphinx.UUCP (Charles Blair) writes: > > >Spend the money and buy Crosstalk. Supports Kermit (have used), XMODEM >(have not used), and emulates a number of terminals. I emulate a VT-100 >on a DEC-20 to do Emacs and spreadsheets, and a TVI-920 to emulate a >3270 (I'm going through a protocol converter) to do work on an Amdahl. >You can run other programs from within Crosstalk (like your editor, if >you have enough memory). Also, Microstuf's technical support people, when >their phone isn't busy, are quite helpful. I've used a version of >Procomm, and didn't seem to find a "script" facility like Crosstalk's >for automating logins. Is there a version that supports such >a facility? (1) PROCOMM *does* have a script facility in its later versions. It can be used for automating logins. You can run your editor from later versions of PROCOMM, just as in Crosstalk. (2) The only program you can explicity run from Crosstalk is your editor (or whatever you tell it your editor is). To run other programs, Crosstalk lets you start up the command processor (whatever's in COMSPEC) as a subshell. PROCOMM works exactly the same way (later versions, again). (3) PROCOMM's terminal emulation still seems to have a few bugs in it (as of version 2.3 ... see another message I left a day or two ago here). (4) Crosstalk emulates the VT-100 very painfully. I find it nearly impossible to use EDT (on VAX, VMS) with Crosstalk's choice of keymappings on the VT-100 emulation. PROCOMM's mappings are a little better. PC-VT (public domain VT100 emulator) does a great job. (5) I have a long-standing gripe about Crosstalk. It still (as of version 3.6) doesn't support full path names. It has a CD command, but it's hard to use in scripts because it always asks you on the command line if you really want to change directories. Plus, once you've changed directories, you can't find any system files, help files, script files, etc. until you change directory back again. DOS 2.0 has been out for a couple years or so with full pathnames, and Microstuf still hasn't gotten around to supporting them. (6) Crosstalk does a good job on the nuts and bolts communications. It seems really solid, and all the protocols seem to work. PROCOMM seems good, too, but I haven't used it as much as I had been using Crosstalk. PROCOMM does, incidentally, support Kermit, Xmodem, Ymodem (Xmodem with 1024 byte blocks), and Telink (used a lot on Fido BBS's). Crosstalk has its own protocol, Kermit, and Xmodem only. Take all this into consideration before running out and buying an expensive product like Crosstalk. PROCOMM's only problem that I can see is the minor bugs in terminal emulation. I suspect that will be fixed soon (or maybe is fixed already by now). On a price-per-features basis, I think PROCOMM comes out ahead.
siewert@puff.UUCP (Dean Siewert) (05/11/86)
I've only tried Smartcom a couple of times. It seems that they hired someone to figure ways to make it difficult to use. I've been using Procomm for a while. It is true that the emulators do not work quite right for many of the terminal types. I've been using the adm5 emulator and it seems to work without a hitch. This has been used for calling up Unix systems. The emulator does a "slow terminal" display for the adm5. That is, it doesn't show inserts in vi until you hit the excape key. That has only been a very minor complaint. The folks putting out procomm seem committed to make it a very good package. There have been three updates this year and it just gets better. Dean Siewert University of Wisconsin-Madison
connery@bnrmtv.UUCP (05/12/86)
> Discussion of Crosstalk and PROCOMM, each with advocates.
I am currently using PibTerm, even though it has a number of glaring flaws.
I have used both Crosstalk and PROCOMM in their latest versions. I would
not suggest anybody buy Crosstalk unless they really want to spend money
or have already tried PROCOMM. Crosstalk has a number of problems. It
doesn't seem to do flow control particularly well, has no conditional
capabilities (the WHEN command, I think its called, just plain DOES NOT
WORK and NEVER HAS), and doesn't handle pathnames particularly well. On
top of that the interface is getting just a little old.
I would be using PROCOMM except that it doesn't have keyboard mappings in
the terminal emulator. I use the rand editor on a unix system I call up
and I want to be able to define the keypad PgUp key as a page up in the
editor. PROCOMM doesn't let me do this. I can do this in either PibTerm
or Crosstalk, but PROCOMM uses PgUp for File Upload. I could either get
used to hitting another key for this, but I use too many systems already
to start futzing around with something like that. Also once I start
redefining the up and down cursor keys, I won't be able to use them in
menus and such.
If PROCOMM had keyboard mappings I would probably be using it. Of course
its script language is BIZARRE. At least CrossTalk and PibTerm use
words!!! PibTerm's has turned out to be the best I've seen, and I've
written some really complex logon macros with it. The problems with
PibTerm are legion however--problems in XModem handling with some bulletin
boards, the way it does ASCII capture and transmit, the fact that its
just too fucking big (course you ain't seen nothing until you've seen the
latest version of QModem).
Still waiting for the best solution...
--
Glenn Connery, Bell Northern Research, Mountain View, CA
{hplabs,amdahl,3comvax}!bnrmtv!connerybc@cyb-eng.UUCP (Bill Crews) (05/14/86)
> In article <600@kepler.UUCP> mojo@kepler.UUCP (Morris Jones) writes: > > > >I wonder if there's anything to be found in the professionally developed > >software that does any better? > > > >Mojo > >... Morris Jones, MicroPro Product Development > >{lll-crg,ptsfa,dual,well,pyramid}!micropro!kepler!mojo > > Just a mild flame. I find it very interesting that you seem to be > indicating that persons/companies who chose to distribute their products as > 'shareware' are not 'professional' developers. > > Regards, AT&T Bell Laboratories > Michael Weber 1255 South Cedar Crest Boulevard > ihnp4!aluxp!mjw Allentown, Pennsylvania 18103 The tendency of netters to refrain from capitalization is unfortunate sometimes. IBM sells some inexpensive, unsupported software under the name "Professionally Developed Software". It is a series of software in which quite a large number of generally useful programs are sold on a diskette for something in the range of $19.95 to $49.95 (there may be some a little higher yet). This is cheap enough that information about its capabilities is often passed around in the same discussion groups with information about Freeware, Shareware, public domain stuff, etc. So I believe your flame is unwarranted, given this knowledge. -- - bc - ..!{seismo,topaz,gatech,nbires,ihnp4}!ut-sally!cyb-eng!bc (512) 835-2266
cjdb@sphinx.UChicago.UUCP (Charles Blair) (05/15/86)
> I have used both Crosstalk and PROCOMM in their latest versions. I > would not suggest anybody buy Crosstalk unless they really want to spend > money or have already tried PROCOMM. Crosstalk has a number of problems. > It doesn't seem to do flow control particularly well, has no conditional > capabilities (the WHEN command, I think its called, just plain DOES NOT > WORK and NEVER HAS), and doesn't handle pathnames particularly well. On > top of that the interface is getting just a little old. The WHEN command does work, but the documentation on it is misleading (at least so I think). It is possible to write pretty fancy scripts using more than one when statement to automate logins, and even to switch between machines, though some people might think the sweat necessary to figure out how might be more trouble than it's worth (but you've got to use the tools you have, right?). The inability to handle pathnames (except to the editor) is a hassle, but PC DOS 3.1 solves that (subst.exe). So Crosstalk has its problems, but is there anything out there that does *everything* it does, and better? If so, I'd sure like to know about it: so far I haven't seen any informed indication that there is. And at least its interface doesn't whistle at me like PROCOMM's (yes, I know, you can turn the sound effects off). -- Charles Blair ..!ihnp4!gargoyle!sphinx!cjdb The University of Chicago lib.cb%chip@UChicago.Bitnet
peter@baylor.UUCP (Peter da Silva) (05/20/86)
> > Discussion of Crosstalk and PROCOMM, each with advocates. > > I am currently using PibTerm, even though it has a number of glaring flaws. Such as... none of the communications protocols work at all. > I have used both Crosstalk and PROCOMM in their latest versions. I would > not suggest anybody buy Crosstalk unless they really want to spend money > or have already tried PROCOMM. Crosstalk has a number of problems. It > doesn't seem to do flow control particularly well, has no conditional > capabilities (the WHEN command, I think its called, just plain DOES NOT > WORK and NEVER HAS), Gee, I used to use it all the time back before I gave up & wrote my own program just to get a decent VT100 emulation.. > and doesn't handle pathnames particularly well. On > top of that the interface is getting just a little old. Aww... good old Crosstalk isn't as bad as all that... -- -- Peter da Silva -- UUCP: ...!shell!{baylor,graffiti}!peter; MCI: PDASILVA; CIS: 70216,1076