esac@ihuxr.UUCP (10/10/83)
Has anyone ever noticed that there is a rather obvious flaw running through most of the Star Trek episodes? Warp drive,as I understand it, is warp 1 = speed of light, warp 2 = 4 times the speed of light, warp 3 = 8 times, etc. Now the theory of relativity, or my understanding of it, says that as you "approach" the speed of light, times slows down, that is to say, your apparent elapsed time on the ship. When you hit the speed of light, time stands still for you. If this is the case, then how can the crew be expected to measure any time interval to get from A to B? If they are going faster then light at warp 2 and above, does time go backwards? My bottom line question is "Is there a feasible explanation for all this or is this gross artistic license that I'll have to ignore." Please post to the net if you think others would be interested in discussing this. And please don't call me an idiot if I've got my facts screwed up. I already know what I am. Thanks -- Bill Adams ihuxr!esac
rjnoe@ihlts.UUCP (Roger Noe) (10/11/83)
Actually, warp factors are "defined" as the warp factor cubed times the speed of light (the "effective speed", I guess you could call it). Thus warp factor 2 would be 8c, warp 10 would be 1000c (the maximum emergency speed of the uprated Enterprise). Warp factors less than 1 are usually not referred to, substituting instead some fraction of impulse engine power, which is that fraction of the speed of light. In order for any story about interstellar travel to be interesting, such speeds are a necessity (excepting the case of a multigenerational ship traveling to a nearby star at some fraction of c). Perhaps this is artistic license, but it could also be science fiction. SF often requires the reader to accept the possibility that some improbable event could happen. This suspension of belief does not detract at all from the validity of the story--as long as the story does not explicitly contradict known laws of nature. One common method of getting around this is to invent (hypothesize is too scientific a word here) new laws or extend known laws to enable such far-fetched things to happen. Warp speeds are a fine example of this practice. Not enough is known about the validity of special relativity, much less general relativity, to be able to say that effective speeds faster than light are impossible. Sure, it appears that special relativity limits everything to less than the speed of light and explains time dilation and other relativistic effects. But there is a loophole: what if space itself changes? Black holes have been postulated and there is some evidence that they exist. Their effects on the space and time about them are just guessed at (so far). Who is to say that it would be impossible for a space ship to affect its surroundings, creating a "warp" in the fabric of space? (I am NOT implying the Enterprise uses black holes in any way to create its space warp!) If this were possible then a starship might be able to appear some distance away in some amount of time which seems to require a speed in normal space many times the speed of light. But special relativity may be preserved if the ship travels in its own "bubble" of warped space at a speed (relative to its immediate sur- roundings) less than c. This is precisely how the Enterprise's warp engines are postulated to function. -- Roger Noe ...ihnp4!ihlts!rjnoe
alb@alice.UUCP (10/12/83)
Warp 10 is not the maximum emergency speed of the Enterprise, warp 8 is (warp 6 is the maximum normal/safe speed). Warp 10 is the maximum emergency speed of the dreadnaught class starships (the Enterprise is a heavy cruiser); warp 8 is their maximum normal/safe speed.
dje@5941ux.UUCP (10/12/83)
alice!alb writes:
Warp 10 is not the maximum emergency speed of the Enterprise,
warp 8 is (warp 6 is the maximum normal/safe speed). Warp
10 is the maximum emergency speed of the dreadnaught class
starships (the Enterprise is a heavy cruiser); warp 8 is
their maximum normal/safe speed.
This was true in the time frame of the televised episodes. For the two
feature films, the Enterprise was upgraded and refitted. I'm not sure of
my sources, but I believe that the upgrade allowed two extra warp factors.
Technology marches on!
By the way, if any readers have access to the NEW ENTERPRISE technical manuals
or guides, I would appreciate the information. Among the goodies I might be
able to share in exchange is a copy of the Enterprise bridge blueprints (TV
time frame), button by button, done by the late Michael McMaster.
David Ellis / Bell Labs, Piscataway NJ
...!{hocda,ihnp4}!houxm!houxf!5941ux!dje
...!floyd!vax135!ariel!houti!hogpc!houxm!houxf!5941ux!djewoods@hao.UUCP (Greg Woods) (10/12/83)
alled "fudge factor" formulas for
converting Newtonian equations into relativistic ones by multiplying or
dividing by sqrt(1-(v*v)/(c*c)) will turn out to be inaccurate when V gets
close to C.
Greg "I'd never post this to net.physics" Woods
--
{ucbvax!hplabs | allegra!nbires | decvax!brl-bmd | harpo!seismo | ihnp4!kpno}
!hao!woods