rjnoe@ihlts.UUCP (Roger Noe @ N41:48:31, W88:07:13) (02/02/84)
> Why couldn't Kirk use the transporter to dematerialize the Genesis > device into its component atoms? > Phil Chin Good question, indeed. But first I have to say that I'm fairly sure that Kirk did not offer to beam survivors of the Reliant on board the Enterprise. Little matter here, because I think he told Uhura to signal them "Prepare to be boarded" and I know they weren't going to use ropes and swing over (cutlasses in hand). They had to have transporter power and be within range to use it. I suppose (as others have suggested) that there might not have been enough power to beam the whole Genesis device. It would weigh considerably more than a few people, and it's a pretty good bet to say that power required for the transporter is roughly proportional to the mass being transported. And destroying Genesis with Reliant perhaps would have set it off. David Marcus said that Kirk could not just go over there and shut it off. The implication was that even David couldn't do it, i.e. a physical impossibility. Except for running, that only left the transporter. There have been times that something has been beamed out to space at "widest possible angle of dispersion". But does that necessarily mean that a solid flies apart into zillions of pieces, resembling more of a gas? Nomad was transported whole and promptly destroyed itself ("Sterilize!"). The humanoid body that Redjac (Jack the Ripper) had taken control of was beamed out, where the body undoubtedly died rather quickly. Redjac itself would live for a long time regardless of what happened to that body. There are other examples. But nowhere do we have a real reason to believe that the transporter could really pull things apart. Matter transportation is quite a problem in itself, but transmutation is much less conceivable. We know that Starfleet does not have this capability in the Star Trek time frame. All the Enterprise could have done would be to transport the Genesis device out to maximum transporter range (in TV Star Trek, that was something like 25 Mm) which was not far enough. The energy could be better used at achieving "best possible speed", well under the speed of light. But of course none of these explanations approach the real reason that Kirk could not have beamed away Genesis. The real reason being that this way, being forced to run and without enough power to make it, makes for a dramatic scene and allows Spock to die in a way that befits the character. Roger Noe ihnp4!ihlts!rjnoe
crl@pur-phy.UUCP (Charles LaBrec) (02/03/84)
Well, if I am allowed to stretch my imagination--the transporter requires extremely accurate position information. It is usually extremely difficult to even use sensors for this, that is why communicators were so necessary. In the Mutara Nebula, sensors were almost useless, and even visual was extremely unreliable. Therefore, trying to pinpoint the Genesis device would be next to impossible. Charles LaBrec UUCP: pur-ee!Physics:crl, purdue!Physics:crl INTERNET: crl @ pur-phy.UUCP
john@hp-pcd.UUCP (02/09/84)
Khan was able to use the transporter to steal the Genesis device only after he had its exact location. Kirk could not have done it. John Eaton !hplabs!hp-pcd!john
rjnoe@ihlts.UUCP (Roger Noe @ N41:48:31, W88:07:13) (02/10/84)
>> Khan was able to use the transporter to steal the Genesis device only >> after he had its exact location. Kirk could not have done it. >> John Eaton There were two differences. Genesis was ACTIVE at the time Kirk could have thought about transporting it away. They could pick up its energy waveforms so they could locate the source. Also, Kirk knew what he was looking for, having seen all the classified material on project Genesis. Khan had no idea whatsoever what Genesis was or did (beyond a few intelligent guesses, I assume--after all, he did have the superiore inntellect, not to mention rrich corrinthiann leathherr). Roger Noe ihnp4!ihlts!rjnoe
jonab@sdcrdcf.UUCP (Jonathan Biggar) (03/08/84)
In article <355@ihlts.UUCP> rjnoe@ihlts.UUCP writes: >>> Khan was able to use the transporter to steal the Genesis device only >>> after he had its exact location. Kirk could not have done it. >>> John Eaton > >There were two differences. Genesis was ACTIVE at the time Kirk could have >thought about transporting it away. They could pick up its energy waveforms >so they could locate the source. Also, Kirk knew what he was looking for, >having seen all the classified material on project Genesis. Khan had no idea >whatsoever what Genesis was or did (beyond a few intelligent guesses, I >assume--after all, he did have the superiore inntellect, not to mention >rrich corrinthiann leathherr). > Roger Noe ihnp4!ihlts!rjnoe There are several good reasons why Kirk could not use the transporter to destroy the Genesis device: 1) The Enterprise has been very badly damaged by Khan's attack in the Mutara nebula. The ship probably did not have enough power to operate the transporters without putting the main engines back on line. 2) The nebula was dense enough to stop the ship's shields from operating, and to make the ship's sensors almost worthless. They could pick up the energy being released by the Genesis device because of the large amount of energy it put out, but probably could not locate it accurately enough to use the transporters anyway. 3) Kirk just didn't think of it. :-} Jon Biggar {allegra,burdvax,cbosgd,hplabs,ihnp4,sdccsu3,trw-unix}!sdcrdcf!jonab
rjnoe@ihlts.UUCP (Roger Noe) (03/12/84)
To state my views once again, I do not think Kirk could have used the Enterprise's transporters to destroy the Genesis device. If you look at the reference line to this article you'll see this discussion has been going on a long time . . . >> The Enterprise has been very badly damaged by Khan's attack in >> the Mutara nebula. The ship probably did not have enough power >> to operate the transporters without putting the main engines >> back on line. Doubtful, because Kirk told Uhura to signal Reliant to prepare to be boarded. That almost certainly means using transporters within the next few minutes. >> They could pick up the energy being released by the Genesis device >> because of the large amount of energy it put out, but probably could >> not locate it accurately enough to use the transporters anyway. Possible, but sensors have been demonstrated before to be quite accurate at locating sources of energy. Nevertheless, it's a pretty good point. >> Kirk just didn't think of it. :-} >> Jon Biggar Well of course that's the real reason. Put another way, they didn't write it into the story because it was more interesting the way they DID film it. Roger Noe ihnp4!ihlts!rjnoe
rtf@ihuxw.UUCP (sparrow) (03/13/84)
<blank line> As to the ongoing discussion as to why Kirk did not use the transporter to destroy the Genesis device, I submit the following argument. Kirk DID think of it when he said they would beam over and stop the device. David then said bluntly, "You can't". This means the only use would be to beam the device as far away as possible which was already discussed here earlier and dismissed. This is the way I remember it. sparrow
crigney@uok.UUCP (04/01/84)
#R:sdcrdcf:-88700:uok:8400016:37777777600:582 uok!crigney Mar 31 01:07:00 1984 I agree with sparrow; once the Genesis device was started it could not be turned off, and transporting it into space would have made no difference, it would've just gone off wherever they sent it. I'm quite sure the Transporter didn't have the range to transport it so far that the wave effect wouldn't reach the Enterprise. The scene I miss most in the movie, that was in the book, is the computer game Boojum Hunt that two of the Genesis scientists use to fool Khan. Of course, they paid terribly for their cleverness... Carl ..!ctvax!uokvax!uok!crigney ..!duke!uok!crigney
keasmith@uok.UUCP (04/01/84)
#R:sdcrdcf:-88700:uok:8400020:000:661 uok!keasmith Apr 1 16:08:00 1984 /***** uok:net.startrek / crigney / 1:07 am Mar 31, 1984 */ I agree with sparrow; once the Genesis device was started it could not be turned off, and transporting it into space would have made no difference, it would've just gone off wherever they sent it. I'm quite sure the Transporter didn't have the range to transport it so far that the wave effect wouldn't reach the Enterprise. The scene I miss most in the movie, that was in the book, is the computer game Boojum Hunt that two of the Genesis scientists use to fool Khan. Of course, they paid terribly for their cleverness... Carl ..!ctvax!uokvax!uok!crigney ..!duke!uok!crigney /* ---------- */