markv@dartvax.UUCP (Mark Vita) (04/27/84)
<Ahem...>
Most Trek fans know that the progression of command of the
Enterprise goes from Kirk to Spock to Scotty to Sulu.
But who comes after that? I remember only one episode when
all four were off the ship at once, and that was "Catspaw".
In that episode, another guy takes over. He had dark
hair, and wore a red engineering-division shirt. The one
line of his that I distinctly remember is (when the Enterprise
has been encased by the witch's force field) something
like: "We may not be able to break it, but I'll bet
<something> to Navy beans we can put a dent in it!"
Does anyone recall this person's rank and name? What the
rationale for having him in command was (over, say, Uhura)?
Does he appears in any other episodes? I know there
was an animated episode in which Uhura took command.
Also, does anyone know what the <something> in the
above quote is supposed to be? I guess the memory
isn't as distinct as I thought.
Mark Vita
..!decvax!dartvax!markvks@astrovax.UUCP (Karl Stapelfeldt) (04/28/84)
You speak of Lt. DeSalle, who also appeared in the first season episode "Squire of Gothos". As to the sequence that leads to his ascendancy to command, it's probably a quirk of the Catspaw script.
martillo@ihuxt.UUCP (martillo) (04/30/84)
Credits to navy beans -- WWII slang -- navy beans were not rationed and therefore no government credits were needed to purchase them.
ix21@sdccs6.UUCP (04/30/84)
Actually I remember reading in one of the books about the filming of the Star Trek episode, (either The Making of Star Trek or The World of Star Trek), Lt. Uhura was suppose to be next after Capt. Kirk, Cmmdr. Spock, or Lt. Cmmdr. Scott, but when a script actually came up when Kirk, Spock, and Scott were going to leave the ship, NBC, [a force greater than the combined forces of the Federation, Klingons, and Romulans -)], ruled that a woman could not command a starship. Suddenly Sulu gained seniority. Apparently Nichelle Nichols and Gene Roddenberry complained a lot about this. Also where is it written that the most senior commanding officer takes the conn when the captain leaves the ship? On naval ships the deck officer rotates among all the officers according to the watch list. The OOD can only be relieved by the captain or first mate even if another officer is more senior to the OOD. Could the conn just pass on to whoever is next on the watch list when the captain leaves the Federation ship? This is a weak argument, since the captain can only leave a naval ship when the ship is in port and therefore off duty; whereas the captain of a Federation ship can leave at anytime.
rjnoe@ihlts.UUCP (Roger Noe) (04/30/84)
Yes, that was Lieutenant Vincent DeSalle played by Michael Barrier. He was a relief navigator in "Squire of Gothos" and "This Side of Paradise", but in "Catspaw" he was assistant chief engineer. He appeared in no other episodes. The rationale for him being fifth in command seems to have something to do with the rationale for Sulu being fourth. It's always seemed to me that (in the series at least) there were too few high-ranking officers on board the Enterprise. Of course there can to be only one Captain, but why only one Commander (Spock, who had been a Lt.Cdr.) and one Lt.Cdr. we know of (Scott). LOTS of Lieutenants (like Sulu, Uhura), but why should there not be another Commander or Lieutenant Commander next in charge? I decided it probably had something to do with "department chiefs", like Command (Kirk), Sciences (Spock), Engineering (Scott), followed by their assistants, Sulu (Command), and DeSalle (Engineering). Who's second in Sciences? I don't know. There are several holes in this explanation. At least in ST3 we'll get to see a lot of Uhura "being in charge" [HINT]. The quote is "I'll bet credits to navy beans . . ." but refers not to the U.S. military credits but to the Federation-wide use of credits as a monetary standard. The saying does of course originate in World War II. Roger Noe ihnp4!ihlts!rjnoe
mcmahan@dartvax.UUCP (Bob McMahan) (05/01/84)
This is in regard to the succession of command in the
science division (as pointed out by Roger Noe.)
I believe that in "The Menagerie", Spock, when pressed
by Dr. McCoy about the shuttlecraft persuing the Enterprise, turned himself
in to the highest ranking officer present...Dr. McCoy. If the succession
of command does extend into the science division (which is probably
unlikely given that one division in the official hierarchy is command) it
would probably point to McCoy next.
--
Bob McMahan
UUCP : {decvax,linus,cornell,dalcs,true} !dartvax!mcmahan
ARPA : mcmahan%dartmouth@csnet-relay
CSNET : mcmahan@dartmouth *
*
Office : Shattuck Observatory
Dartmouth College *
Hanover, N.H. 03755
Earth : 43 degrees 42' - W 72 degrees 17' * *
Analog : 603-646-2310 * * * *
300baud : 603-646-5237 * *
* *
* arnold@gatech.UUCP (Arnold Robbins) (05/01/84)
Actually, Dr. McCoy was also an officer, a Lt. Cmdr, equivalent to Scotty,
but he never took command. Taking command also apparently requires some
training (going to Starfleet Acadamy). A doctor would not have had any
of the necessary training (military tactics, etc). Scotty, who (from some
of the books) apparently rose from the ranks, may not have gone to the
Academy, but he undoubtedly has lots of experience from having served in
the fleet X number of years.
In one of the new ST books (The Entropy Effect) Spock goes time-travelling,
and leaves McCoy in charge, w/out telling Scott, in order to keep secret
that he's trying to change the past. So (for a little while, History does
get changed, and so it ends up not happening) McCoy did get to command.
As has been mentioned, in one of the animated episodes, Uhura does take
command, since ALL the men are off the ship, including Sulu.
--
Arnold Robbins
CSNET: arnold@gatech
ARPA: arnold%gatech.csnet@csnet-relay.arpa
UUCP: ...!{akgua, allegra, rlgvax, sb1, ut-sally}!gatech!arnold
"All this digital stuff is just a fad. Analog is the way to go."
-- William M. Robbins, 1984lab@qubix.UUCP (Q-Bick) (05/02/84)
"Menagerie" is the only episode in which McCoy, a medical officer, is
given any authority. (BTW, both he and Giotto were Lt. Cmdrs.) Apart
from that, conn usually went Kirk, Spock, Scott, Sulu, DeSalle (because
Sulu wasn't on board, remember?) ...
One plausible reason for Uhura not having the conn is that she wasn't a
line officer as was Sulu (despite his service red uniform - I miss
those), nor could she pull rank on DeSalle. I guess Giotto was just a
temporary assignee.
--
The Ice Floe of Larry Bickford
{decvax,ihnp4,ucbvax}!{decwrl,sun}!qubix!lab
decwrl!qubix!lab@Berkeley.ARPArcook@uiucuxc.UUCP (05/04/84)
#R:dartvax:-138800:uiucuxc:19800004:000:230
uiucuxc!rcook May 4 12:42:00 1984
Does anyone recall from the Managerie when Spock released command to
Dr. McCoy? This was when Spock was charged for mutiny and told Bones
to have him arrested.
Rob Cook
at csovaxfriedman@uiucdcs.UUCP (05/07/84)
#R:dartvax:-138800:uiucdcs:24900036:000:1054
uiucdcs!friedman May 7 11:28:00 1984
/**** uiucdcs:net.startrek / uiucuxc!rcook / 12:42 pm May 4, 1984 ****/
Does anyone recall from the Managerie when Spock released command to
Dr. McCoy? This was when Spock was charged for mutiny and told Bones
to have him arrested.
/* ---------- */
/**** uiucdcs:net.startrek / dartvax!mcmahan / 6:26 pm May 2, 1984 ****/
I believe that in "The Menagerie", Spock, when pressed
by Dr. McCoy about the shuttlecraft persuing the Enterprise, turned himself
in to the highest ranking officer present...Dr. McCoy. If the succession
of command does extend into the science division (which is probably
unlikely given that one division in the official hierarchy is command) it
would probably point to McCoy next.
/* ---------- */
No, no! In Menagerie, Spock turned himself in to McCoy as senior officer
present, but he did not turn command over to McCoy, who (as a medical officer)
could not take command. Just before presenting himself to McCoy for arrest,
he turned command over to the helm officer (I forget who, but it wasn't Sulu).rjnoe@ihlts.UUCP (Roger Noe) (05/07/84)
Actually, in "The Menagerie" Spock did not 'release command' to McCoy. He surrendered himself for arrest on the charge of mutiny, but McCoy did not take command. But when Kirk and Mendez are beamed aboard Enterprise from the starbase shuttle, someone says to Kirk, "Transferring command to you." Who was that? Was it Sulu? I won't be able to check my videotapes until tonight. I think it would make the most sense just to say that the order of succession to command would depend not just on rank and division but mostly on command experience and ability. Thus (after Kirk) Spock would have the most command experience followed by Scott, Sulu, and DeSalle. McCoy probably has no command training. Kirk does refer to command school now and then, so it seems to me that training specifically for starship command would be one of the prime factors under consideration here. -- "Sorry, neither!" Roger Noe ihnp4!ihlts!rjnoe
freeman@yale-comix.UUCP (Ace) (05/08/84)
I saw Part One of "The Menagerie" last night and can provide the final answer to this command question. When Spock surrendered himself he said, to McCoy, something to the effect of "As senior officer present". He then proceeded to inform Lt. Hanson that he was in "operational command". It was Hanson that turned over command to Kirk. Obviously in this episode, a clear distinction is made between seniority and the ability to command the ship. Andy
linwood@jett.UUCP (Linwood Varney) (05/09/84)
I definatly remember an episode where Checkov takes command.
Am I wrong? I have not had a chance to research it, but this
seems the appropriate time to bring it up.
- Linwood Varney (Jett Unix System, Huntsville, AL)
{ihnp4|clyde|sdcrdcf}!akgua!jett!linwoodwbpesch@ihuxp.UUCP (Walt Pesch) (05/09/84)
Wouldn't the correct quote be: "I'm a doctor, not a command officer" Here Mousey, Mousey, Mousey Walt Pesch AT&T TEchnologies ihnp4!ihuxp!wbpesch
jmike@uokvax.UUCP (05/11/84)
#R:dartvax:-138800:uokvax:5800007:000:140 uokvax!jmike May 11 08:08:00 1984 . the rational? well don't forget when this movie was made and don't forget that uhura was a women. mike ..ctvax!uokvax!jmike