dss3485@acf4.UUCP (05/19/84)
[eat hardy]
Once the Federation had stolen the cloaking device from the Romulans,
the 'balance of power' was restored. Both sides, being in possession of
the technology, would soon be able to develop some defense against it
and thus render it useless.
david silver
dss3485@nyu-acf4.arpabrahms@trwspp.UUCP (05/29/84)
[}{]
To start another discussion up I have this question:
Why have the Federation not included cloaking devices
on their ships?
We all know that Kirk and Spock stole one from the Romulens.
So why does not the Federation use it? Could it be that the
Federation is considered the good guys and it does not look
good to go sneaking around? If this is the case (I doubt
it), why go to the trouble of stealing it?
-- Brad Brahms
usenet: {decvax,ucbvax}!trwrb!trwspp!brahms
arpa: Brahms@USC-ECLCmerchant@dartvax.UUCP (Peter Merchant) (05/30/84)
Well, personally, I thought "The Enterprise Incident" was a pretty grim script, anyway. Also, I think that episode was in the third season, so they wouldn't have had time to "add" a cloaking device, anyway. Also, the Federation would obviously want to come up with an "improved" cloaking device, so they wouldn't throw them into ships immediately. I tend to doubt they would mention the installation of one anyway. If If anything, the proverbial balance of power has been maintained now that both sides have equally strong "weapons."
okie@ihuxs.UUCP (B.K. Cobb) (05/31/84)
As I understand it, the cloaking device consumed quite a bit of power. In fact, in a recent ST novel (M.S. Murdock's 'Web of the Romulans'), the Romulan vessel that had the cloaking device was equipped with extra fuel supplies; it was considered a "suicide mission" and thus they could stay "cloaked" for a much longer period of time than normal. So, taking that to a logical conclusion, the power consumption on the stolen model of the device may just be too power-intensive to make it effective. As another netter mentioned earlier, that would probably require some research to make it more efficient. Personally, I would hope it never reaches the stage where it is used frequently--it smacks too much of 'deus ex machina' for a number of situations. Perhaps it could become one of those wonderful things that are fun to use, but can't be used much at all? Hey, let's start another strange discussion--how does the darn thing do it, anyway? By bending light? By altering indices of refraction? By psionically creating the impression of emptiness? Any ideas? B.K. Cobb ihnp4!ihuxs!okie "Aren't you dead?"
dp@astrovax.UUCP (Deborah L. Padgett) (06/01/84)
"The Enterprise Incident" is from the third season, and that fact speaks for itself!
mnw@trwrba.UUCP (Michael N. Washington) (06/01/84)
I suspect that the Federation does not use a cloaking device for a couple of reasons. First, the power drain would be enormous and not worth it. Second, since the Federation stole the cloaking device from the Romulans for the simple reason (I think) to figure out how to track a ship so equipped. Since the Romulan commander did state that eventually they would figure out how to track a ship using the device, why bother equipping your ships with such a device. Michael N. Washington TRW E&DS Redondo Beach, Calif. 90278 trwrba!mnw
chris@proper.UUCP (Chris Hayes ) (06/02/84)
They stole it because they needed to 'see how it was done.' Once they had a device, they could modify the scanners to detect cloaked ships. The romulan commander said 'We will soon develop new devices that you cannot detect..' It would not be viable to redesign the starships because: It would require entensive modification to the ships (new dilithium xtal's), and furthermore, the romulans can, obviously, detect their own device being used, so how would it help the federation? (The romulans would surely tell the klingons...) Chris Hayes: ucbvax!dual!proper!chris
neal@denelcor.UUCP (Neal Weidenhofer) (06/03/84)
************************************************************************** > So...perhaps the >cloak is a sensor detector/reflector capable of quickly >(on the order of picoseconds? Femtoseconds?) decoding sensor >signals and sending back the proper null reflection signal? >Man, that think would have to be *fast!* It would be more >of a signal processor/manipulator than a device capable of >creating an 'effect.' Sounds like the radar-absorbing paint that Jimmy Carter "spilled the beans" about in 1976. Regards, Neal Weidenhofer "Blame it on the Rolling Denelcor, Inc. Stones" <hao|csu-cs|brl-bmd>!denelcor!neal
martillo@ihuxt.UUCP (Yehoyaqim Martillo) (06/03/84)
There is no evidence that the federation does not equip spy and scout
ships with the cloaking device. Since a heavy cruiser is characterized by
heavy weaponry there is no obvious reason to equip it with a device which
would prevent it from using its main weapons.
--
Yehoyaqim Shemtob Martillo
(An Equal Opportunity Offender)rick@rochester.UUCP (Rick Floyd) (06/04/84)
The novelization of Star Trek III mentions in passing the effect that cloaking has on occupants of a ship: "...the cloaking device put the creature's temper on a thin edge. It had a similar effect on people. Once in a while it would, without warning, drive someone mad. But this time everyone survived the transition sane." This suggests that the device would only be used in cases of extreme desperation and/or ruthlessness. Since Federation commanders aren't supposed to be either desperate or ruthless... rick floyd uucp: (seismo | allegra)!rochester!rick arpa: rick@rochester exointernet: sol>rochester>rick
mnw@trwrba.UUCP (06/04/84)
B. Cobb may have something there. Let's have a discussion about cloaking. My feelings about how the device work is that either it absorbs the outgoing light waves or as B. Cobb states, maybe the light waves are bent in such a way, it appears to render the object invisible. The only thing that we know of that has the power to drastically alter light is a black hole. So from this fact, I believe that it would take considerable power to use such a device. All the Federation wanted to do is to get one and learn how it works, so that they could track a ship that was using the device. Michael N. Washington TRW E&DS Redondo Beach, Ca. 90278 trwrba!mnw
bsafw@ncoast.UUCP (06/04/84)
The gravity field may work symmetrically only -- i.e. in the secondary
hull and perhaps the warp pods, but maybe not in the primary hull (and spe-
cifically the bridge). It depends on what theories of gravitation they use
(heck, maybe Zefrem Cochrane ousted Einstein) and on the mechanics of their
generator.
"Or do you deny the komerex zha?"
--
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Independence, Ohio 44131rh@mit-eddie.UUCP (Randy Haskins) (06/05/84)
Actually, the cloaking device consists of two entirely independent field generators. One is a "Somebody Else's Problem" field, and the other is a field that makes the ship look pink. :-) -- Randwulf (Randy Haskins); Path= genrad!mit-eddie!rh
5863mp11@sjuvax.UUCP (mccann) (06/26/84)
The cloaking device which Kirk origionally captured from the Romulans during the regular star trek series, functioned by bending electromagnetic radiation around a ship, therefore, rendering it invisible to sensors, etc. The disruption caused by this bending, however, was detectable, hence, cloaked ships could be fired upon, but it was very chancy. The nature of the cloaking device makes it impossible for the cloaked ship to fire its weapons, due to the incredible power demands as well as the effect of the device on the cloaked ships sensors. It would be logical to conclude that the device in SSS works on a similar principle as the Romulan device since the Klingons origionally supplied the Romulans with Warp technology, the Romulans probably gave them the cloaking device.
lmaher@uokvax.UUCP (07/02/84)
#R:trwspp:-44500:uokvax:5800014:000:1175 uokvax!lmaher Jun 18 23:28:00 1984 <"I tried shoving a tribble into the warp drive, and it dinna do a bit of good."> David Gerrold mentioned that The Enterprise Incident was just the Pueblo Incident but with the Good Guys winning. I found the energy consumption assumed in _The Romulan Web_ rather far-fetched. A ship that can spend 5 years in deep space burning away its energy in a matter of hours. And what's this "extra fuel" business - don't the Romulans use dilithium crystals too? It certainly seems like the Cloak bends the light, remember the wavery starfield in ST3? I like the explanation given that Federation spy and scout ships might have it, but there's no reason for a Heavy Cruiser. On another note, all four opponent ships in "The Ultimate Computer" are Constitution-class heavy cruisers, just like the Enterprise. I saw it last week, and it looks like they used the Enterprise model for all four; hardly surprising considering their budget. Its interesting that (SPOILER SPOILER) 46 (?) people were required to run the ship with M-5, and only 5 in ST3, 15 years later. Of course, M-5 could fight. Carl (formerly uok!crigney) ..!ctvax!uokvax!lmaher ..!duke!uok!uokvax!lmaher