rrw@ccieng2.UUCP ( Richard R. Wessman) (07/24/84)
Since everyone is already talking about STIV, how about if we get some ideas
about what the plot should be.
Personally, I think that IV should follow III, that is, "The Courts-martial
of Kirk." After all, he did steal the Enterprise and did manage to lose it.
I think a trial would give a good look into the inner workings of the
Federation, among other things.
There's my idea, what do you think?
Rick Wessman
ccieng2!rrwfrdish@aecom.UUCP (Larry Freund) (07/26/84)
> Since everyone is already talking about STIV, how about if we get some ideas > about what the plot should be. > > Personally, I think that IV should follow III, that is, "The Courts-martial > of Kirk." After all, he did steal the Enterprise and did manage to lose it. > I think a trial would give a good look into the inner workings of the > Federation, among other things. > > There's my idea, what do you think? > > Rick Wessman Haven't we seen enough court martial scenes already? After the episode entitled "Court-Martial" and "The Menagerie" wouldn't yet another court martial ending with the accused being found innocent on the basis of some extraordinary new evidence (we can speculate on what it is later) be a bit redundant? How about something new? Larry Freund
merchant@dartvax.UUCP (Peter Merchant) (07/28/84)
{ Stranger in the night than in the daytime... }
Indeed, the "Kirk's Ass Is In The Sling, Careerwise" has been done
before. However, Kirk managed to get out of it because of some
sneaky evidence that popped up at the last minute, saving the day.
Yet, what sneaky evidence can Jim come up with to save his ass this
time? After all, we all saw the movie: They can't hide anything on us.
And, to paraphrase David Gerrold, we all know that Jim's career isn't
a goner. He's the hero. We don't tune in to see whether Jim is going
to get out of this mess. He's OBVIOUSLY going to get out of this mess.
That's why he's the hero! We all tune in to see HOW he gets out of this
mess.
That's why I'd go see it. Yeah, Jim's going to get out of it and I
urgently hope he does. I just want to see how!
--
"How." -- Sitting Bull Peter Merchantmerchant@dartvax.UUCP (Peter Merchant) (08/01/84)
{ We don't need no stinkin' starships... }
I keep hearing it. "Yeah, well Kirk should get away with it because
he came back with a Klingon Warship."
Well, how does Starfleet know what happened out there? For all they
know, Jim's ship went kerflooey by accident, so he just took over a
Klingon ship. The Klingons have free reign on this one...they can
fake some nice broadcasts from their ship about how they were attacked
in the neutral zone by this Federation Starship.
See? No one has any proof about what happened. Remember, Starfleet
didn't see the movie. All they know is that Jim Kirk went out in the
Enterprise and showed up at Vulcan with the Klingon Ship. The Klingons
can put whatever filler in the middle that they want.
Now, let's see. The Klingons are all upset and, once again, threatening
interstellar war if something isn't done about this silly renegade named
Jim Kirk and his band of militiamen. Now, which do you think is more
important to Star Fleet: Jim Kirk's career/hide or the lives of billions
of people if the Klingons make good their threat and go to war?
Sorry, Jim, you're up shits creek.
--
"We haven't got a paddle. Peter Merchant
We haven't even got a boat!" -- Col. Hoganables@ut-ngp.UUCP (King Ables) (08/02/84)
Well, if you go by that logic (Starfleet doesn't have to take Kirk's
word on what happened and the Klingons can claim otherwise) what about
the Klingons? They don't necessairly know what happened either. They
just know the Kludge :-) went out and didn't come back.
Besides, the Enterprise probably sends out some logs or something before
a destruct, and I'm sure they send them out at regular intervals anyway
(although with a skeleton crew, maybe not). I know, I know, the Klingons
could also have sent out logs so they'd know what happened.
----
-King
ARPA:ables@ut-ngp
UUCP:{ctvax,ihnp4,kpno,seismo}!ut-sally!ut-ngp!ablesrjnoe@ihlts.UUCP (Roger Noe) (08/03/84)
> Well, how does Starfleet know what happened out there? For all they > know, Jim's ship went kerflooey by accident, so he just took over a > Klingon ship. The Klingons have free reign on this one...they can > fake some nice broadcasts from their ship about how they were attacked > in the neutral zone by this Federation Starship. Not quite. Starfleet does NOT know exactly what happened unless Kirk decided to make periodic reports (highly improbable) by subspace or Kirk & crew make a full report (could be they decide to face the music) or if engaging self- destruct on a starship automatically causes the log buoy to be ejected. This is very believable. But in any event, the Klingons do not have "free reign" to state what happened. There will be physical evidence marking the passage of Enterprise, Grissom, and probably the Klingon scout ship. Both Enterprise and Grissom made transmissions capable of being picked up by Starfleet. We also have Maltz, who knows all about the mission to invade Federation space and learn how to use Genesis as a weapon. Don't tell me that the Vulcans can't pick out any detail they wish to from Maltz' unwilling mind. Further, it will be immediately apparent that Enterprise was nowhere near the neutral zone and that the Klingons crossed the neutral zone and blasted away a non-military scientific research vessel without warning or provocation. The Klingons can either say that Kruge was a renagade, without orders, and try to continue peace talks or they can allow their cold war to continue. It's a scenario such as the following which is the most improbable: > Now, let's see. The Klingons are all upset and, once again, threatening > interstellar war if something isn't done about this silly renegade named > Jim Kirk and his band of militiamen. Now, which do you think is more > important to Star Fleet: Jim Kirk's career/hide or the lives of billions > of people if the Klingons make good their threat and go to war? Yeah, and I'm sure the U.S. would have surrendered to the Soviet Union if they had given us the same ultimatum regarding George Patton at the end of World War II. And Starfleet's situation regarding the Klingons is even stronger! Now, don't get me wrong - I am not for Kirk slipping away without some difficulty. But we don't need another court-martial he wins. Here's what I would like to see: Kirk surrenders and takes full responsibility for what he did. Scott, Sulu and Chekov are suspended from Starfleet for some length of time. Uhura gets off with just a reprimand but Kirk is kicked out of Starfleet at court-martial and says he doesn't plan to appeal. McCoy is excused because of the mental strain he was under at the time. Meanwhile, Spock's recovery is nothing short of amazing. McCoy gets to like Vulcan so much he stays there to take care of Spock (to whom he is close) and starts learning some Vulcan philosophy and medicine. Let's say they are both on leave from Starfleet. We learn that the state of uneasiness between Starfleet and the Klingons is reaching a crisis point, something like our Cuban Missile Crisis. We get lots of opportunities to see Saavik in command training (played by the much more Vulcan-looking Robin Curtis) and Uhura is also in some sort of command position (at LEAST first officer on a starship, I hope). The Klingons turn out to have put all their resources on one offensive and have the bulk of Starfleet's forces at bay. Suddenly a Klingon scout ship appears behind them and orders the Klingons to surrender. It's Kirk, Scott, Sulu, and Chekov! Klingons don't surrender. A terrible fight ensues, and the Federation wins (mainly due to Kirk's sudden appearance), sparing the Klingons from being annihilated. The Klingons realize they have nothing left to fight with so they negotiate a peace treaty. Kirk and party reveal that their courts-martial were all ruses and that they were under secret orders from the Federation to infiltrate and send back information on the Klingon's movements. Their tactics at the end were all Kirk's idea, for which he is reinstated as Admiral. He also gets the payment he demanded from Starfleet: command of one of the newest starships, of the same class as Enterprise, and it is to be named Enterprise II, usually referred to as just Enterprise. As he, Scott, Sulu, Uhura, and Chekov board the new ship, they discover McCoy and Spock already on board. Spock is recovered (it appears) and his commission has been reactivated. They have all requested (and been granted) that they be allowed to serve under Kirk on Enterprise. (No mention is made of Excelsior in the whole movie--it's still just an experiment.) Alternate ending: let some of the major characters explore their own careers in Starfleet but keep Kirk, Spock, McCoy and probably Scott together at the very least. None has a reason to split apart. But I think it's time to give Sulu and Uhura a bit more and dump Chekov. >-| -- "It's only by NOT taking the human race seriously that I retain what fragments of my once considerable mental powers I still possess." Roger Noe ihnp4!ihlts!rjnoe
friedman@uiucdcs.UUCP (08/03/84)
#R:ccieng2:-46600:uiucdcs:24900058:000:547 uiucdcs!friedman Aug 3 08:17:00 1984 > Now, let's see. The Klingons are all upset and, once again, threatening > interstellar war if something isn't done about this silly renegade named > Jim Kirk and his band of militiamen. Now, which do you think is more > important to Star Fleet: Jim Kirk's career/hide or the lives of billions > of people if the Klingons make good their threat and go to war? > Sorry, Jim, you're up shits creek. Well, he may be up the creek, but not from Klingon threats. The Klingons CAN'T go to war because of the Organians, so the threat would be empty.
merchant@dartvax.UUCP (Peter Merchant) (08/05/84)
That's true, the Klingons don't know, either. But when Jim Kirk comes back
and starts screaming about how naughty the Klingons are, they'll come up
with some way. And since it's the Klingons word against Jim, and the Klingons
are more powerful then Jim, who wins?
Also, I tend to doubt that Jim, who is refugee from justice, would send out
logs that said "Hey, everything is really mellow here." Besides, it's the job
of the communications officer to send those out. I see no Uhura here.
--
Peter Merchantables@ut-ngp.UUCP (King Ables) (08/06/84)
>Also, I tend to doubt that Jim, who is refugee from justice, would send out >logs that said "Hey, everything is really mellow here." Besides, it's the job >of the communications officer to send those out. I see no Uhura here. But Chekov was at the Comm. console trying to hail the Grissom. Are you being sexist and saying a man can't do a woman's job just as well as a woman?? :-) Seriously, though, if Kirk had wanted to send out logs, he could have with no problem in personel. The question is whether or not he might want to. ---- -King ARPA:ables@ut-ngp UUCP:{ctvax,ihnp4,kpno,seismo}!ut-sally!ut-ngp!ables
merchant@dartvax.UUCP (Peter Merchant) (08/06/84)
{ Scotty! Save my ass! }
I like your story. It is rather amusing.
They still have that one captured Klingon and the Vulcans could always use the
Mind Meld or whatever it is to pick the information out.
...EXCEPT, Vulcans don't like to do that. Spock, I don't remember, ever doing
it without the other being's permission (Except in the novel "The Price of the
Phoenix." TRIVIA: Whatever happened to the sequel?) I don't think we'd get
the Vulcans to go in and pry this information out of the guy.
The thing about the ship ejecting a log is quite possible. How do the logs
work? Any idea. Because, after all, if the log didn't get far enough away,
when Genesis went kerboom, it might have gotten swallowed.
As I said, what information does Starfleet have? They are missing two
Starships: the Grissom and the Enterprise. Assuming neither got logs
out, or they were eaten, Starfleet has no information except what Jim says
and what the Klingons say.
And, while originally the Klingons were the Russians and the Federation was
the U.S., there is one distinct difference between the Klingons and the
Russians: The Klingons CRAVE WAR. They love it. It's the next best thing
to sex. The Russians don't. The only reason the Klingons signed that damn
treaty in the first place is that they realised that they were going up
against an unbeatable foe named THE ORGANIANS. Not the Federation. Kor
was quite sure that they could whip the Federation with one arm tied behind
their backs. They weren't afraid of the Federation.
Now, if the Organians have suddenly decided to go on Vacation and let the
battles begin, I think the Klingons would grab at any excuse to attack.
They want to. Remember Star Trek: The Motion Picture/Sickness? They had
new cruisers that were supposed to be more then a match for our silly
Heavy Cruisers. Unfortunately, they got eaten by the cloud, but with these
suckers on their side, the only reason that they didn't attack before is
because the Organians wouldn't let them. If we can be correct in assuming
that a loophole to the treaty has been found, the Klingons will take any
excuse to attack and the Federation will go to any length to try to make
peace, the amazing diplomats that they are. They'll agree to kick Jim
out of Star Fleet. Here's my concept of the next movie...it's very close
to the other one.
Jim returns back to shame. The Federation is blaming him for causing an
interstellar incident. An a desperate attempt to appease the Klingons,
Jim is kicked out of the service along with his motley band. The Klingons
babble something about "This isn't good enough. We're still pissed." and
wipe out a planet or two. The Federation sends in some cruisers and things
are starting to look bad when Jim pops up in his silly little spaceship and
manages to turn the tide (How, I don't know. Maybe they end up using Genesis
as a weapon. I don't buy that one of those wimpy 12 man ships could wipe
out the Klingons new battle cruiser.) Oh, by the way, in the course of the
battle the Excelsior gets nailed, and there is much rejoicing. Anyway, so
Jim shows up and saves the day and the Federation decides that since Jim
was so nice and helped them out, they would return his former rank and such
if he promises never to do anything like that again, which he agrees to.
Of course, the camera shows those of us in the audience that Jim had his
fingers crossed and we all get a good laugh.
--
"I'm up the creek" -- Cheap Trick Peter Merchantdsmith@proper.UUCP (David Smith) (08/06/84)
{A sop to the mythical line eater}
I've seen several notes on here about how the Enterprise had
cameras all over it, or would logically have had them. The Klingons,
being in general much more suspicious of each other (with good reason)
are sure to have the bloody things everywhere, along with some kind of
continual bridge recording. Therefore, Kirk has all the evidence needed
to spring himself.
David Smith
"Beam me up Scotty, this planet sucks"rjnoe@ihlts.UUCP (Roger Noe) (08/09/84)
OK, we don't need the Vulcans to use their mind techniques to pry secrets
out of Maltz. We can use the psychotricorder from "Wolf in the Fold".
--
"It's only by NOT taking the human race seriously that I retain what
fragments of my once considerable mental powers I still possess."
Roger Noe ihnp4!ihlts!rjnoeron@wjvax.UUCP (Ron Christian) (08/16/84)
{ Scotty! Save my ass! }
From: merchant@dartvax.UUCP (Peter Merchant):
..... "The Price of the Phoenix." TRIVIA: Whatever happened to
the sequel?)
*******
Why, it was published, of course. I have a copy of "The Fate of
the Phoenix". The two books were somewhat interesting, if rather
maudlin (sp?). I think taken together and edited a great deal,
they would have made one good book.
--
"Trivia is important." Ron Christian
Watkins-Johnson Co.
San Jose, Calif.
(...ios!wjvax!ron)