wanttaja@ssc-vax.UUCP (Ronald J Wanttaja) (04/16/85)
First off, as a starting point, one must assume that there was no legitimate solution to the "No-Win Scenario." Such a title would indicate that all eventualities would result in ambush and destruction, and remember that Kirk took the test several times and couldn't beat it without altering the conditions. So, the main questions is: How to get a maximum grade! Saavik's initial assumption was that the distress call was legitimate. The only verification received was that the KM was a genuine ship... not, if I remember correctly, that it was flight planned for that area, or even in transit at that time. I don't know if that info would have been in the big E's computer, but an attempt should have been made to verify with Star Fleet. This could have been initiated at the same time as the change in course to intercept, so no time would have been lost. I can't believe that three Klingon cruisers would have been able to ambush and trap the ship... after all, we are talking about three-dimentional space, here. A "High speed flyby" trajectory course could have been implemented, that would have brought the KM within sensor range yet allowed Enterprise to veer off back to friendly space when the Klingons were detected, or allowed a course change to meet the KM had space been clear. I wonder what Star Fleet's Rules of Engagement (ROE) are? Does Star Fleet consider 400 lives aboard the KM were an even trade for starting a Klingon/Federation war? An excellent novel emphasising ROE is "The Hunt for Red October." A realistic depiction of a defection attempt by a Soviet Missile sub, at one point the Soviet "Boomer", with US personnel aboard, is under attack by a Soviet attack sub, yet nearby US attack subs cannot fight due to the US Navy ROE. Knowing military organizations, there is probably a whole manual on conduct near neutral zones, and entry is probably strictly prohibited. Saavik may have blown her chance for command. Anyway, all someone had to do was say, "Golly, Enterprise, we're in trouble", and Saavik took the Big E into the neutral zone, with minimal tactical preparation. I haven't done that since the first time I played "TREK-80." :-) Well, *I* would have given her a low grade... Ron Wanttaja (ssc-vax!wanttaja) Cute sign-offs prohibited by Star Fleet Regulations.
herbie@watdcsu.UUCP (Herb Chong [DCS]) (04/17/85)
the KM test was a PSYCHOLOGICAL test, not a tactical test. it's purpose
was to see how a person faces essentially impossible odds and incredible
bad luck under an already stressful situation. that the prospective
commander being tested manages to save the KM obviously makes the
event less stressful.
an opinion from the keyboard of
Herb Chong...
I'm user-friendly -- I don't byte, I nybble....
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NETNORTH, BITNET, EARN: herbie@watdcs, herbie@watdcsufriesen@psivax.UUCP (Stanley Friesen) (04/26/85)
In article <626@ssc-vax.UUCP> wanttaja@ssc-vax.UUCP (Ronald J Wanttaja) writes: > >I can't believe that three Klingon cruisers would have been able to ambush >and trap the ship... after all, we are talking about three-dimentional >space, here. A "High speed flyby" trajectory course could have been >implemented, that would have brought the KM within sensor range yet allowed >Enterprise to veer off back to friendly space when the Klingons were >detected, or allowed a course change to meet the KM had space been clear. > You are essentially correct, since three points(ships) only define a plane. The correct number for the ambush is FOUR ships, so that they can englobe the E in a tetrahedron and prevent escape by covering all exit routes. This is in fact the number used in the book, but for some reason they changed it for the movie. -- Sarima (Stanley Friesen) {trwrb|allegra|cbosgd|hplabs|ihnp4|aero!uscvax!akgua}!sdcrdcf!psivax!friesen or {ttdica|quad1|bellcore|scgvaxd}!psivax!friesen
zubbie@ihlpa.UUCP (Jeanette Zobjeck) (05/02/85)
> In article <626@ssc-vax.UUCP> wanttaja@ssc-vax.UUCP (Ronald J Wanttaja) writes: > > > >I can't believe that three Klingon cruisers would have been able to ambush > >and trap the ship... after all, we are talking about three-dimentional > >space, here. A "High speed flyby" trajectory course could have been > >implemented, that would have brought the KM within sensor range yet allowed > >Enterprise to veer off back to friendly space when the Klingons were > >detected, or allowed a course change to meet the KM had space been clear. > > > You are essentially correct, since three points(ships) only > define a plane. The correct number for the ambush is FOUR ships, > so that they can englobe the E in a tetrahedron and prevent escape > by covering all exit routes. This is in fact the number used in the > book, but for some reason they changed it for the movie. > -- > > Sarima (Stanley Friesen) > > {trwrb|allegra|cbosgd|hplabs|ihnp4|aero!uscvax!akgua}!sdcrdcf!psivax!friesen > or {ttdica|quad1|bellcore|scgvaxd}!psivax!friesen *** THIS LINE IS YOUR MESSAGE *** Since Paramont obviously wanted to sell this picture to more than just rabid ST fans they had to make a small concession (sp) to the * normal paying public* <(;-)><={| The average movie goer would hardly have the thought of vertical movement as a means to escape at that point in the movie. Later, after it is demonstrated is another story. Jeanete L. Zobjeck ihnp4!ihlpa!zubbie
samuels@h-sc1.UUCP (ronald samuels) (05/02/85)
> In article <626@ssc-vax.UUCP> wanttaja@ssc-vax.UUCP (Ronald J Wanttaja) writes: > You are essentially correct, since three points(ships) only > define a plane. The correct number for the ambush is FOUR ships, > so that they can englobe the E in a tetrahedron and prevent escape > by covering all exit routes. > -- > > Sarima (Stanley Friesen) > You're right that four ships would be need to englobe the ship, but an englobement wouldn't be necessary. All that would be needed is to prevent the enterprise from getting back to federation territory, therefore three ships would suffice (define the plane blocking the path back to safe space. -- Ron Samuels Harvard University Science Center ...harvard!h-sc1!samuels (or better yet) ...harvard!h-sc4!samuels_b
edtking@uw-june (Ewan Tempero) (05/05/85)
Just a slight side issue. The show I saw tonite ( title forgotten
as usual - the one about ?Organians? beings of pure energy and
thought who for most of the who appear as humans who dislike
violence - they end up preventing a major space battle between
the Klingons and the Federation ) had the Enterprise under
attack from "a large fleet of Klingons". Kirk orders them to
take of and they manage to do so easily ( one presumes anyway
they came back with reinforcements ). Yet in TWoK the E gets
wiped out by 3! Just chalk it up to another inconsistancy.
Actually there are lots of inconsistancies - how often do
they meet up with superior ( but previously unknown ) races
or find archives of great knowledge but we never see these
things again. ( pick your favourite - the "Wink of an Eye"
comes to mind ). Which brings me to another question -
What series of stories with the same back ground have there
been. The pair where the Enterprise goes back to 20th century
Earth is one set. Any others?
--
Ewan
------------
Ewan Tempero "Oh no, not again"
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Please check all nuclear arms at the door.zubbie@ihlpa.UUCP (Jeanette Zobjeck) (05/10/85)
> > In article <626@ssc-vax.UUCP> wanttaja@ssc-vax.UUCP (Ronald J Wanttaja) writes: > > You are essentially correct, since three points(ships) only > > define a plane. The correct number for the ambush is FOUR ships, > > so that they can englobe the E in a tetrahedron and prevent escape > > by covering all exit routes. > > -- > > > > Sarima (Stanley Friesen) > > > > You're right that four ships would be need to englobe the ship, but an > englobement wouldn't be necessary. All that would be needed is to > prevent the enterprise from getting back to federation territory, therefore > three ships would suffice (define the plane blocking the path back to safe > space. > -- > > Ron Samuels > Harvard University Science Center > > ...harvard!h-sc1!samuels (or better yet) ...harvard!h-sc4!samuels_b In which direction , or normal to what flight path would you place this blockading plane in since by following an eliptical course the Enterprise could run away from the blockade further into the neutral zone and loop over the blokade out of their range and at to hi a warp velocity for them to get an effective killing shot off. jeanette zobjeck ihnp4!ihlpa!zubbie