john@moncol.UUCP (John Ruschmeyer) (05/30/85)
>From: kyrimis@tilt.FUN (Kriton Kyrimis) >Organization: Princeton University EECS Dept >Message-ID: <297@tilt.FUN> > >*** REPLACE PREFIX NUMBERS WITH A SAFER SECURITY SCHEME *** > >I was thinking about admiral Kirk's trick of lowering the Reliant's shields in >STTWOK the other day, and suddenly realised that the federation will soon be >in for a nasty surprise: it won't be long before some Klingon/Romulan hacker >comes up with the following piece of code for their battle computer: > >[.....] > >I refer of course to Kirk's using the Reliant's 4 or 5 digit prefix number to >lower her shields. Assuming that data transmission and ship scanning is almost >instantaneous (it seemed so in the movie), then it won't take more than a >minute or two to figure a ship's prefix number and then ... BANG! > >I realise that the whole trick lies in figuring out what lower_shields() does, >but I wouldn't think that the federation is so spy-proof that they can keep it >secret for long. > >Any comments on that? The concept of the prefix code is something that never should have been introduced into the Star Trek universe. As the quoted article points out, they are a horrible security flaw. *IF* a Romulan or Klingon attack fleet could get the master list of prefix codes, all they would need to do would be mount a massive invasion, wait for the massive Federation defending fleet, and blow the Feds to dust. Also, the existence of the prefix codes presents a whole new series of inconsistencies into the Trek universe. Since Kirk assumes Kahn know about the prefix codes, they must have been used 15 years eariler during the events of "Space Seed". Kahn would have learned about them when he learned everything else about a starship. If we accept this, then we can ask a whole series of questions, such as: "Why didn't Wesley use the codes to drop the Enterprise's shields in 'The Ultimate Computer'?" or "Why didn't M5 use the prefix codes to blast everyone in that episode?" or even "Why didn't Styles use the Excelsior's computer to send the prefix codes to stop Kirk and company from stealing the Enterprise?" (God, this could go on all day!) The prefix code was an interesting plot device which got Kirk out of a sure no-win scenario. Unfortunately, we are now stuck with the existence of prefix codes and all that entails. (The idea of ST IV involving time travel is beginning to sound better all the time. If only they could go back and erase the existence of Genesis, prefix codes, et al.) -- Name: John Ruschmeyer US Mail: Monmouth College, W. Long Branch, NJ 07764 Phone: (201) 222-6600 x366 UUCP: ...!vax135!petsd!moncol!john ...!princeton!moncol!john ...!pesnta!moncol!john Silly Quote: I never wanted to be a barber. I wanted to be... a LUMBERJACK!
kyrimis@tilt.FUN (Kriton Kyrimis) (05/31/85)
> > Also, the existence of the prefix codes presents a whole new series of > inconsistencies into the Trek universe. Since Kirk assumes Khan know about > the prefix codes, they must have been used 15 years earlier during the > events of "Space Seed". Khan would have learned about them when he learned > everything else about a starship. If we accept this, then we can ask a > whole series of questions, such as: "Why didn't Wesley use the codes to > drop the Enterprise's shields in 'The Ultimate Computer'?" or "Why didn't > M5 use the prefix codes to blast everyone in that episode?" or even "Why > didn't Styles use the Excelsior's computer to send the prefix codes to stop > Kirk and company from stealing the Enterprise?" (God, this could go on all > day!) > Not necessarily. When I said that the federation was in for a surprise, I was hinting that prefix numbers are a new invention, something that did not exist at the time of the tv episodes. This would take care of all but the last of the above inconsistencies. This can be dealt with by assuming that since prefix numbers are such a security risk, only high-ranking members of starfleet command know of their existence (remember Saavik's surprise?), and only they are allowed to use them. Now the Exelcior wouldn't happen to have a spare admiral on the bridge, would she? And by the time the starbase was alerted, the Enterprise had warped away... This assumption can even do away with the other inconsistencies, if prefix numbers existed during the time of the tv episodes, since I don't believe that any admirals appeared in any of the episodes mentioned above. Now, if the above is true, how did SPOCK know about prefix numbers? Maybe he found out about them by being "understandably curious". -------- Pick five numbers. If they form the prefix number of this week's starship, you win a medal and a commission to the Klingon fleet. -- Kriton (princeton!tilt!kyrimis)
chenr@tilt.FUN (Ray Chen) (05/31/85)
Regarding prefix numbers. They are a security risk only if you're stupid enough to let your ship's computer listen and respond to incoming transmissions. Presumably, there's some sort of "worm-filter" or "listen-only" computer mode that high-ranking officers would know how to turn on if they suspected that someone was about to use prefix numbers to hose over their ship. Ray Chen princeton!tilt!chenr
kyrimis@tilt.FUN (Kriton Kyrimis) (05/31/85)
> Regarding prefix numbers. They are a security risk only if you're > stupid enough to let your ship's computer listen and respond to > incoming transmissions. Presumably, there's some sort of "worm-filter" > or "listen-only" computer mode that high-ranking officers would know > how to turn on if they suspected that someone was about to use prefix > numbers to hose over their ship. > This would beat the whole purpose of prefix numbers. Prefix numbers are supposed to be used to take command from an unwilling captain. Can you imagine Khan saying to Kirk, "Ok, Kirk old friend, I've switched off from listen-only mode, so you can lower my shields and blow my ship to kingdom come"? -- Kriton (princeton!tilt!kyrimis)
john@moncol.UUCP (John Ruschmeyer) (05/31/85)
>From: kyrimis@tilt.FUN (Kriton Kyrimis) >Organization: Princeton University EECS Dept >Message-ID: <299@tilt.FUN> > >> ....... If we accept this, then we can ask a >> whole series of questions, such as: "Why didn't Wesley use the codes to >> drop the Enterprise's shields in 'The Ultimate Computer'?" or "Why didn't >> M5 use the prefix codes to blast everyone in that episode?" or even "Why >> didn't Styles use the Excelsior's computer to send the prefix codes to stop >> Kirk and company from stealing the Enterprise?" (God, this could go on all >> day!) > >Not necessarily. When I said that the federation was in for a surprise, I was >hinting that prefix numbers are a new invention, something that did not exist >at the time of the tv episodes. This would take care of all but the last of >the above inconsistencies. I can accept that with some reluctance. Since Kirk and Spock suspect that Kahn might know about the prefix codes, then they must have also assumed that Kahn spent his first hours on Reliant catching up on 15 years worth of changes. Okay, I can live with that. > This can be dealt with by assuming that since prefix >numbers are such a security risk, only high-ranking members of starfleet >command know of their existence (remember Saavik's surprise?), and only they >are allowed to use them. Now the Exelcior wouldn't happen to have a spare >admiral on the bridge, would she? And by the time the starbase was alerted, >the Enterprise had warped away... I definately agree that they would/should not be known by anyone below command rank, presumably nobody below the rank of Captain. Why only Admirals, though? Kirk is really the only admiral that Starfleet has sent into combat (that we have seen). No where else have we seen a Federation ship commanded by anyone over the rank of Commodore. It seems to me that we would be giving the information to the people who'd need it least. >Now, if the above is true, how did SPOCK know about prefix numbers? >Maybe he found out about them by being "understandably curious". That's a little like you being "understandably curious" about the root passwords of *all* the machines on the Princeton campus. (I don't know your psoition there, so maybe you do know them all. If so, I apologize.) If they are so secret, however, then someone has committed a horrible security breach. Since they are in the computer, I suppose Spock could have found them (given his intimacy with the Enterprise computer). This explanation is a bit strained, however, given the number of files/records the computer must contain. Even a Vulcan has limits! Actually, there is one way that Spock could have found out about the prefix codes- the same way Saavik does. This would mean that at some earlier time (but since the creation of the prefix codes) Spock and some admiral found themselves in the psotion where it was necessary to take control remotely of another Federation starship. He, therefore, would be introduced to them the same way that Saavik is. (Note: this is either a horrible kludge introduced to explain away an inconsistancy or the makings of a novel. ) Finally, it could just be that knowledge about the prefix codes is like knowledge about UNIX. Much of it is unwritten legend and lore passed down from guru to guru as need be. -- Name: John Ruschmeyer US Mail: Monmouth College, W. Long Branch, NJ 07764 Phone: (201) 222-6600 x366 UUCP: ...!vax135!petsd!moncol!john ...!princeton!moncol!john ...!pesnta!moncol!john Silly Quote: I never wanted to be a barber. I wanted to be... a LUMBERJACK!
merchant@dartvax.UUCP (Peter Merchant) (06/01/85)
Possibly the prefix code can be turned on and off. If the ship is listening
for the prefix code and hears it, you have it.
Of course, how did Jim know that Khan's ship would accept the prefix codes?
--
"5705 -- But there's no reply" Peter Merchant
-- City Boyfriesen@psivax.UUCP (Stanley Friesen) (06/04/85)
In article <3207@dartvax.UUCP> merchant@dartvax.UUCP (Peter Merchant) writes: >Possibly the prefix code can be turned on and off. If the ship is listening >for the prefix code and hears it, you have it. > >Of course, how did Jim know that Khan's ship would accept the prefix codes? He *didn't*, he was just gambling, like always. Remember, before he actually sent the code Spock was worried about Khan knowing about the code! It is obvious from this that if you *know* about it you *can* bypass it somehow. -- Sarima (Stanley Friesen) {trwrb|allegra|cbosgd|hplabs|ihnp4|aero!uscvax!akgua}!sdcrdcf!psivax!friesen or {ttdica|quad1|bellcore|scgvaxd}!psivax!friesen
ccrdave@ucdavis.UUCP (Lord Kahless) (06/05/85)
> > Regarding prefix numbers. They are a security risk only if you're > > stupid enough to let your ship's computer listen and respond to > > incoming transmissions. Presumably, there's some sort of "worm-filter" > > or "listen-only" computer mode that high-ranking officers would know > > how to turn on if they suspected that someone was about to use prefix > > numbers to hose over their ship. > > > This would beat the whole purpose of prefix numbers. Prefix numbers are > supposed to be used to take command from an unwilling captain. Can you > imagine Khan saying to Kirk, "Ok, Kirk old friend, I've switched off from > listen-only mode, so you can lower my shields and blow my ship to > kingdom come"? > -- > > Kriton (princeton!tilt!kyrimis) In the Klingon Empire, the ship's computer will reject any and all security codes it receives for a solid week and send off alarms like crazy if somebody sends over the wrong code. It is only logical that the Federation would have included some sort of simmilar protections, to prevent brute force attacks and to alert the bridge crew in the event of somebody trying to break in. It would be illogical for Khan to know of such codes. He hadn't spent that much time piloting a star ship. As Kirk had just pulled the trick on Khan, it would be logical for Kirk to have his chief engineer change the code before they stole the Enterprise. Lord Kahless
don@umd5.UUCP (06/05/85)
In article <3207@dartvax.UUCP> merchant@dartvax.UUCP (Peter Merchant) writes: >Possibly the prefix code can be turned on and off. If the ship is listening >for the prefix code and hears it, you have it. > >Of course, how did Jim know that Khan's ship would accept the prefix codes? The prefix code was intended to facilitate rescue of a ship disabled by 'natural' means. If a ship was designated for combat(or whatever), the captain would simply change the code. I believe that any operational ships computer has a special channel for this sort of thing that is always open. Therefore, one could not 'turn off' the channel. (Khan's ship would accept the prefix code unless it had been changed ...) -- --==---==---==-- "Space, the final frontier ..." What ?!!? ^ No more ?!? But it's a frontier of frontiers !! --==---==---==-- ___________ _____ ---- _____ \ //---- IDIC ----- _\______//_ ---- ---------- ARPA: umd5!don@maryland.ARPA BITNET: don%umd5@umd2 SPOKEN: Chris Sylvain UUCP: {seismo, rlgvax, allegra, brl-bmd, nrl-css}!umcp-cs!cvl!umd5!don
tli@oberon.UUCP (Tony Li) (06/05/85)
In article <299@tilt.FUN> kyrimis@tilt.FUN (Kriton Kyrimis) writes:
Now, if the above is true, how did SPOCK know about prefix numbers?
Maybe he found out about them by being "understandably curious".
Kriton (princeton!tilt!kyrimis)
You forget! Spock is now a CAPTAIN! And since he's now in command of
the Enterprise, he has the prefix numbers.
--
Tony Li ;-) Usc Computer Science
Uucp: {sdcrdcf,randvax}!uscvax!tli
Csnet: tli@usc-cse.csnet
Arpa: tli@usc-ecltrudel@topaz.ARPA (Jonathan) (06/06/85)
> The concept of the prefix code is something that never should have been > introduced into the Star Trek universe. > ... > As the quoted article points out, they are a horrible security flaw. *IF* a > Romulan or Klingon attack fleet could get the master list of prefix codes, > all they would need to do would be mount a massive invasion, wait for the > massive Federation defending fleet, and blow the Feds to dust. > ... I haven't seen anything posted yet as to a valid explanation as to why this wouldn't work, so I thought I'd try to explain it the way I see it. I think those of you who have posted replies have not done much file transferring in your work, because the whole scene revolves around the basic idea of it. In the scene, KHan is waiting for all materials (read files) regarding the project Genesis. Obviously, these files have to be sent with some sort of transfer protocol. In order to do this, Khan has to start up some transfer program (think of Kermit, Xmodem, etc.) to get the information. The prefix code must be a flag to the transfer program to accept the incoming information directly into the ship's command buffer, and to execute it immediately. Aha!, you say as you declare, "but what's to stop all the Romulans/Klingons/Gorn/Vogons/etc. from doing the same?" My response is that the ship on the recieving end has to have the transfer program running in recieve mode, hailing frequencies open, and a crew that is too slow to find the override switch in time. This is not that implausible! > The prefix code was an interesting plot device which got Kirk out of a sure > no-win scenario. If you recall the animated episodes (and if you don't, check the ST role-playing game rules), the prefix code has its uses. During the animated series, the big E was controlling two or three cargo ships that were carrying grain (quadrotriticale, what else?). The big E Used these ships as offensive weapons against a Klingon battle cruiser that had paralyzed it via some stasis ray. In the rpg version, the prefix codes are used in a similar fashion to control starships that are too damaged!unstable to be directly controlled by people. Need I explain further? -- Jonathan D. Trudel arpa:trudel@ru-blue.arpa uucp:{seismo,allegra,ihnp4}!topaz!trudel
avolio@decuac.UUCP (Frederick M. Avolio) (06/06/85)
I suspect it (being able to gain access to a ship via the prefix numbers)
depends on whether the ship is running in DEBUG mode.
--
Fred Avolio {decvax,seismo}!decuac!avolio 301/731-4100 x4227lear@topaz.ARPA (eliot lear) (06/07/85)
In article <37@oberon> Tony Li [uscvax!tli] writes.. > > Now, if the above is true, how did SPOCK know about prefix numbers? > Maybe he found out about them by being "understandably curious". > Kriton (princeton!tilt!kyrimis) > > You forget! Spock is now a CAPTAIN! And since he's now in command of > the Enterprise, he has the prefix numbers. > > -- > Tony Li ;-) Usc Computer Science As posted previously, the prefix codes for various ships are used to control that ship it is disabled or uninhabitable, NOT in case of a crazy captain. A hostile captain need simply change the prefix code to stop someone from getting in. As to who has access, any officer with security clearance would probably do. This also would include Sulu, Ahura, Chekov, and Scott. eliot lear -- uucp: [{allegra,seismo,ihnp4}!topaz!lear] arpa: [Lear@RU-BLUE.arpa]
merchant@dartvax.UUCP (Peter Merchant) (06/07/85)
> In article <3207@dartvax.UUCP> merchant@dartvax.UUCP (Peter Merchant) types: > >Possibly the prefix code can be turned on and off. If the ship is listening > >for the prefix code and hears it, you have it. > > > >Of course, how did Jim know that Khan's ship would accept the prefix codes? > > He *didn't*, he was just gambling, like always. Remember, > before he actually sent the code Spock was worried about Khan knowing > about the code! It is obvious from this that if you *know* about it > you *can* bypass it somehow. > -- > > Sarima (Stanley Friesen) I admit, it was rather a rhetorical question. It got me thinking, though. Suppose it didn't work? Kirk: Okay, Khan. Here it comes. Khan: Trying the ol' prefix code trick, Admiral? Everyone knows about that one. Now, Admiral Kirk, are you going to give me the genesis information without anymore of your annoying tricks? Kirk: Uh. Shit. Scriptwriter?!?!? Maybe they could drive Khan crazy with logical/illogic? Or he could seduce the girl at the helm? -- "If wishes were horses, Peter Merchant then rides would be free. If Brokaw was Cronkite We'd watch NBC."