boyajian@akov68.DEC (JERRY BOYAJIAN) (08/03/85)
[I showed the following quoted message to PDDB, who's contributed a few items to net.startrek. Unfortunately, she no longer has access to the newsgroup, and I'm typing in her response for her. Unfortunately, I've been short of time since she gave me her response, so this is a tad late. Better late than never, though. All typos, if any, are mine. I should perhaps mention now that PDDB is Pamela Dean Dyer-Bennet, who as Pamela Dean wrote THE SECRET COUNTRY. My comments on the article follow hers.] > From: ucdavis!ccrrick (rick heli) > I have been told by a fairly knowledgable source that anyone who > writes Star Trek novels has basically sold out and probably can't > sell non-Star Trek material. Apparently Paramount holds all the > rights to Star Trek stories and pretty much has such writers at > their mercy. How does this follow? Yes, John M. Ford has remarked to me that the Paramount contract for writers of Star Trek novels is horrifying and makes any normal publisher's contract look kind, gentle, and uncomplicated. Yes, Paramount holds all the rights to Star Trek stories. But what has this to do with non-Trek material? I am a very newly-published writer who's writing a Star Trek novel; not at their invitation, just because I want to. My agent would certainly warn me if writing a Star Trek novel meant I could not sell other material; she has not. Besides, vonda McIntyre and Diane Duane have published non-Trek material after having published Star Trek novels. A.C. Crispin wrote some "V" novels after publishing a Star Trek novel. furthermore, given my agents account of what sort of advances and royalties Pocket gives for Star Trek novels, a writer would be mad to restrict himself to writing only in that field. They would not be able to get some of the real and talented writers they have in fact published if such restrictions applied. PDDB/jmb ************************************************************************ The trouble with the whole concept put forth by the "fairly knowledgable source" is that it doesn't hold up to logic. First fo all, as Pamela pointed out, some rather prominent authors --- John Ford, Diane Duane, and Vonda McIntyre, plus Greg Bear, Barbara Hambly, Lawrence Yep, et al. --- have all written Star Trek novels. None of them are in such dire financial straits that they need to sell a Star Trek novel under such ridiculous restrictions in order to feed themselves. Thus, to voluntarily place themselves at the mercy of Paramount by writing a Star Trek novel would be the stupidest thing they could possibly do. As far as A.C. Crispin goes, it was the sales on her Trek novel that got her the contracts for the V novels. And she has gone on to bigger and better things, such as collaborating with Andre Norton on GRYPHON'S AERIE. The whole notion of Paramount having a Trek author at their mercy is patently ridiculous anyway. It would be tantamount to their owning you body and soul, which is not legal in this country. Their contracts *cannot* restrict your activities in other areas. Now, what *is* not uncommon for a new-author contract is that for a period of n years or n books, the publisher may place a clause in the contract by which the new author cannot sell a book elsewhere unless the particular publisher in question has a chance to buy it first (this is generally known as "first refusal rights"). There can be exceptions to this clause. PDDB, for instance, is under such a restriction from Ace/Berkley (I believe --- unfortunately, she has moved back to Minnesota, so I can't check with her right now), but since Ace/Berkley does not have the license to publish Star Trek books, Pamela is free to market such a book to a publisher that *does* have such a license. I suggest that you tell your "knowledgable source" that he doesn't know what he's talking about. --- jayembee (Jerry Boyajian, DEC, Acton-Nagog, MA) UUCP: {decvax|ihnp4|allegra|ucbvax|...}!decwrl!dec-rhea!dec-akov68!boyajian ARPA: boyajian%akov68.DEC@DECWRL.ARPA
ccrrick@ucdavis.UUCP (Rick Heli) (08/13/85)
> [I showed the following quoted message to PDDB, who's contributed a few > items to net.startrek. Unfortunately, she no longer has access to the > newsgroup, and I'm typing in her response for her. Unfortunately, I've > been short of time since she gave me her response, so this is a tad late. > Better late than never, though. All typos, if any, are mine. I should > perhaps mention now that PDDB is Pamela Dean Dyer-Bennet, who as Pamela > Dean wrote THE SECRET COUNTRY. My comments on the article follow hers.] > > > From: ucdavis!ccrrick (rick heli) > > > I have been told by a fairly knowledgable source that anyone who > > writes Star Trek novels has basically sold out and probably can't > > sell non-Star Trek material. Apparently Paramount holds all the > > rights to Star Trek stories and pretty much has such writers at > > their mercy. > > How does this follow? Yes, John M. Ford has remarked to me > that the Paramount contract for writers of Star Trek novels is > horrifying and makes any normal publisher's contract look kind, > gentle, and uncomplicated. Yes, Paramount holds all the rights to > Star Trek stories. But what has this to do with non-Trek > material? I am a very newly-published writer who's writing a Star > Trek novel; not at their invitation, just because I want to. My > agent would certainly warn me if writing a Star Trek novel meant I > could not sell other material; she has not. > > Besides, vonda McIntyre and Diane Duane have published > non-Trek material after having published Star Trek novels. A.C. > Crispin wrote some "V" novels after publishing a Star Trek novel. > furthermore, given my agents account of what sort of advances and > royalties Pocket gives for Star Trek novels, a writer would be mad > to restrict himself to writing only in that field. They would not > be able to get some of the real and talented writers they have in > fact published if such restrictions applied. > > PDDB/jmb > > ************************************************************************ > > The trouble with the whole concept put forth by the "fairly knowledgable > source" is that it doesn't hold up to logic. First fo all, as Pamela > pointed out, some rather prominent authors --- John Ford, Diane Duane, > and Vonda McIntyre, plus Greg Bear, Barbara Hambly, Lawrence Yep, et al. > --- have all written Star Trek novels. None of them are in such dire > financial straits that they need to sell a Star Trek novel under such > ridiculous restrictions in order to feed themselves. Thus, to voluntarily > place themselves at the mercy of Paramount by writing a Star Trek novel > would be the stupidest thing they could possibly do. > As far as A.C. Crispin goes, it was the sales on her Trek novel > that got her the contracts for the V novels. And she has gone on to > bigger and better things, such as collaborating with Andre Norton on > GRYPHON'S AERIE. > > The whole notion of Paramount having a Trek author at their mercy is > patently ridiculous anyway. It would be tantamount to their owning you > body and soul, which is not legal in this country. Their contracts > *cannot* restrict your activities in other areas. > Now, what *is* not uncommon for a new-author contract is that > for a period of n years or n books, the publisher may place a clause > in the contract by which the new author cannot sell a book elsewhere > unless the particular publisher in question has a chance to buy it > first (this is generally known as "first refusal rights"). There can > be exceptions to this clause. PDDB, for instance, is under such a > restriction from Ace/Berkley (I believe --- unfortunately, she has > moved back to Minnesota, so I can't check with her right now), but > since Ace/Berkley does not have the license to publish Star Trek books, > Pamela is free to market such a book to a publisher that *does* have > such a license. > I suggest that you tell your "knowledgable source" that he > doesn't know what he's talking about. > > > --- jayembee (Jerry Boyajian, DEC, Acton-Nagog, MA) > > UUCP: {decvax|ihnp4|allegra|ucbvax|...}!decwrl!dec-rhea!dec-akov68!boyajian > ARPA: boyajian%akov68.DEC@DECWRL.ARPA You misconstrue the issue. It is not that Paramount would seek to prevent writers from writing non-Star Trek related materials, only that their restrictions are so bad that no writer would want to write for them. So who does? Simply those who can't write anywhere else... in general, anyway... if not in every particular... And, PUHleeze, don't hold up Vonda McIntyre as an example of good SF writing... or even good Star Trek writing... not to me at any rate... -- --rick heli (... ucbvax!ucdavis!groucho!ccrrick)
chabot@miles.DEC (All God's chillun got guns) (08/14/85)
rick heli == > & > > > You misconstrue the issue. No, you let yourself wide-open for this one > > I have been told by a fairly knowledgable source that anyone who > > writes Star Trek novels has basically sold out and probably can't this is kind of nasty------------------------^ ^ this implies that Paramount won't let them------------------------^ or that they're incapable of it > > sell non-Star Trek material. Apparently Paramount holds all the > > rights to Star Trek stories and pretty much has such writers at > > their mercy. this ------^ sounds like the "slavery" clause we thought you were claiming--why else "mercy": hacks can always find work > It is not that Paramount would seek to > prevent writers from writing non-Star Trek related materials, only > that their restrictions are so bad that no writer would want to > write for them. So who does? Simply those who can't write anywhere > else... in general, anyway... if not in every particular... > > And, PUHleeze, don't hold up Vonda McIntyre as an example of good > SF writing... or even good Star Trek writing... not to me at any > rate... Look, just don't get nasty. Vonda McIntyre has sold a lot more fiction that you have, unless you're publishing under a pseudonym, and you originally said "...probably can't sell non-Star Trek material." You've been given other examples of authors who've published non-ST material: John M. Ford, Diane Duane, A C Crispin, Greg Bear, Barbara Hambly (and she even has non-science- fiction-fantasy stuff published, and fantasy, and I think even non-fiction), Lawrence Yep. Now, that's 7 authors: how about you, or your knowledgeable source, come up with a list of those who aren't published elsewhere. There are bad ST novels, there are damn fine ones. I've read two, based on recommendations from this newsgroup and from PDDB, and those two were enjoyable. (Ford's _The_Final_Reflection_ and Hambly's _Ishmael_ ) You can't just throw out some data because, well, those authors *happen* to be _good_ and therefore don't fit into the category of ST authors, and you can't throw out some data just because you don't happen to like what they write: the original claim was that ST authors "can't" publish elsewhere. Wrong. If your issue was just to say nasty things about those who've published ST novels, well, you've done that. Congratulations. We've given you counter-examples: what do you say to that? Perhaps they're not to your taste. Oh, well. What *do* you like and KNOW about ST: let's talk about that instead. So, if *you*'re just going to be nasty: you know what they say about people who quote an entire lengthy posting before adding their comment at the end! L S Chabot ...decwrl!dec-rhea!dec-amber!chabot chabot%amber.dec@decwrl.arpa
jeand@ihlpg.UUCP (AMBAR) (08/14/85)
> And, PUHleeze, don't hold up Vonda McIntyre as an example of good > SF writing... or even good Star Trek writing... not to me at any > rate... > --rick heli Huh? Are we talking about the same woman? DREAMSNAKE is a fabulous book! Well plotted, well written, with characters that make you want to crawl in the book with them! Rick, I'm sincerely puzzled. What DO you consider good SF writing? AMBAR Until Aug. 16 --> {*ANYTHING*}!ihnp4!ihlpg!jeand "I told you when I *MET* you that I was crazy, and you weren't listening!"
lear@topaz.RUTGERS.EDU (eliot lear) (08/21/85)
Let's not get our definitions mixed up. Just because a novel is famous does
NOT make it good (at least as far as I'm concerned).
--
[lear@topaz.rutgers.edu]
[{allegra,seismo,inhp4}!topaz!lear]ccrrick@ucdavis.UUCP (Rick Heli) (08/28/85)
Discussion continued where it belongs: net.flame. -- --rick heli (... ucbvax!ucdavis!groucho!ccrrick)