ccrrick@ucdavis.UUCP (Rick Heli) (07/23/85)
I have been told by a fairly knowledgable source that anyone who writes Star Trek novels has basically sold out and probably can't sell non-Star Trek material. Apparently Paramount holds all the rights to Star Trek stories and pretty much has such writers at their mercy. However, other people seem to like these tales. At the bookstore I am overwhelmed by the sheer number of such books available. In the past I have read "Spock Must Die" and "Spock, Messiah", but I believe these two are quite a bit older than the new crop. What about these newer books? Does anyone out there have an unqualified recommendation for one or two of them? -- ----- "Rescue your DNPC from a horrifying menace today!" ----- --rick heli (... ucbvax!ucdavis!groucho!ccrrick)
kalash@ucbingres.ARPA (Joe Kalash) (07/25/85)
In article <382@ucdavis.UUCP> ccrrick@ucdavis.UUCP (Rick Heli) writes: >I have been told by a fairly knowledgable source that anyone who >writes Star Trek novels has basically sold out and probably can't >sell non-Star Trek material. Apparently Paramount holds all the >rights to Star Trek stories and pretty much has such writers at >their mercy. > More to the point, the authors can pick up some cheap and easy money. I have no idea why these people would be catagorized as having "sold out". Joe Kalash kalash@berkeley ucbvax!kalash
chabot@miles.DEC (Sxyzyskzyik) (07/26/85)
rick heli > I have been told by a fairly knowledgable source that anyone who > writes Star Trek novels has basically sold out and probably can't > sell non-Star Trek material. Apparently Paramount holds all the > rights to Star Trek stories and pretty much has such writers at > their mercy. Can you give a logical explanation for believing such nonsense, other than that someone told you? Try looking at the bookshelves: see the names John M. Ford (Star Trek novel: _The_Final_Reflection_, and I never thought I'd ever read a Star Trek novel (having tried) and I never thought I'd ever say I liked one and I never thought I'd say a Star Trek novel would be one of the best books I've read all year (I'm an awful snob), and damn fine science fiction); other novels include _The_Princes_of_the_Air_, and whose just published _Dragon_Waiting_, which is sort of a alternate-history fantasy if you had to categorize it, is hot and hard to put down!), Barbara Hambly (_Ishmael_), and many, many others-- since I've only read these two these two authors stick in my mind more than the others. Several of those who've sold Star Trek novels sell lots of other books. Don't just believe what you're told: go to the bookstore to where they have all those displays full of Star Trek novels and jot down a couple of the authors' names and then go look in say the science fiction section of the bookstore and see if you can find anything (but while you're over by the Star Trek books, buy a copy of _The_Final_Reflection_ if you can still get it and take it home and read it. Or, on second thought, I know some really prime real estate in California City with all the conveniences (many roads are paved, creosote bushes, stark mountain views, without the encumbrances of human neighbors!): get in now before the rush! Now for something I can't have you prove to yourself: What is true, is that to get published by Pocket Books, the only people who are authorized to publish Star Trek novels, you have to meet certain criteria, which include bizarre and restrictive things like no splinter-Vulcan groups, no books which include non-main-line-up-in-the-bridge-type Enterprise characters (probably to prevent aspiring Star Trek novelists from insinuating an idealized self on the Enterprise to save the day), no physical touching between a captain and his first officer or anything suggestive like that. Weirdnesses like this (and we know that lots of the best Star Trek novels violate some of these rules in some degree), but frankly, you're getting this third-hand from me... * * * Those who've appreciated the postings of PDDB (forwarded by .wIx., with disclaimers) will be nearly as disappointed as I to learn that we won't get any more: DDB and PDDB are about to return West to the fabled land of the scribblies (I've never seen the midWest and I have no proof it exists in realtime). I'd never known anyone who knew so many correct details about Star Trek, anyone who could ever spark an interest in me in reading a Star Trek novel, or who could discuss it so accurately, and literately, and without being foolishly fond or cynically superior. L S Chabot ...decwrl!dec-rhea!dec-amber!chabot
chabot@miles.DEC (All God's chillun got guns) (08/30/85)
>>> You misconstrue the issue. >> >>No, you let yourself wide-open for this one >>> > I have been told by a fairly knowledgable source that anyone who >>> > writes Star Trek novels has basically sold out and probably can't >>this is kind of nasty------------------------^ ^ >>this implies that Paramount won't let them------------------------^ >> or that they're incapable of it > >If it implied that Paramount won't let them, there would be no qualifier >like "probably." Either Paramount does or does not. Why don't you >stick to reading what it says, not what you want it to say? >> > sell non-Star Trek material. Apparently Paramount holds all the >> > rights to Star Trek stories and pretty much has such writers at >> > their mercy. >this ------^ > sounds like the "slavery" clause we thought you were claiming--why else > "mercy": hacks can always find work > > >"at their mercy" as in authors have no bargaining power as Paramount >holds all the rights. Of course, you went right ahead and compounded >your earlier error. What about your error, Rick? You're the one who proposed some ludicrous nonsense about these writers. You're the jerk who can't even be bothered to walk into a bookstore to verify your bizarre hypotheses. >>> It is not that Paramount would seek to >>> prevent writers from writing non-Star Trek related materials, only >>> that their restrictions are so bad that no writer would want to >>> write for them. So who does? Simply those who can't write anywhere >>> else... in general, anyway... if not in every particular... >>> >>> And, PUHleeze, don't hold up Vonda McIntyre as an example of good >>> SF writing... or even good Star Trek writing... not to me at any >>> rate... >> >>Look, just don't get nasty. Vonda McIntyre has sold a lot more fiction that you >>have, unless you're publishing under a pseudonym, and you originally said >"...probably can't sell non-Star Trek material." You've been given other >>examples of authors who've published non-ST material: John M. Ford, Diane >>Duane, A C Crispin, Greg Bear, Barbara Hambly (and she even has non-science- >>fiction-fantasy stuff published, and fantasy, and I think even non-fiction), >>Lawrence Yep. Now, that's 7 authors: how about you, or your knowledgeable >>source, come up with a list of those who aren't published elsewhere. > >Who's getting nasty? I'm simply repeating a statement made to me >and checking it out. My, aren't you the sensitive one. Is Vonda >McIntyre your grandmother or what? And where do you get off defending >her when you admit you haven't even read any of her ST schtuff? When did I say I hadn't read any Vonda McIntyre? Not up there, not to you, and certainly not within the past 8 years to anyone. I haven't read her Star Trek stuff, but I have read other things. No, I'm not related to *any* Star Trek authors. >Probably saying that these people couldn't get published was giving >the wrong slant to it. In an ideal world, they couldn't. Sadly, >in this day and age, you make a pittance on some ST novel and other >publishers figure you must be good and start publishing. Kind of >reminds me of prime time TV. You need to hunt pretty hard to find >anything that rises above the dreck. What is this? You get a thrill from posting assinine comments. Okay, I understand: you don't think you like Star Trek novels, so you decided to post stuff to net.startrek guaranteed to annoy a lot of people. Rick, listen: read Jerry Boyajian's article--he lists plenty of examples of authors who published fiction well before they sold a Star Trek novel. *Both* of the authors of the two Star Trek novels I've read sold books before they sold Star Trek novels (John M. Ford and Barbara Hambly). >>If your issue was just to say nasty things about those who've published ST >>novels, well, you've done that. Congratulations. We've given you >>counter-examples: what do you say to that? Perhaps they're not to your taste. >>Oh, well. What *do* you like and KNOW about ST: let's talk about that instead. >> > >Not for the sake of being nasty. Just letting a little light shine. >If the net votes for (and thereby recommends) a book that I think >is lousy, I'm going to let someone know. The same goes for the idea >of the ST novels in a larger sense. > You did nothing of the sort--you said nothing about a specific book you didn't like, you just dumped on ALL Star Trek novels, *without*even*saying*you'd*read* one*you*didn't*like*. >It appears to me, sad but true, that there are lots of good ST fans >out there willing to put up this inferior stuff that you are defending >so vigorously. I said I'd read two good ones, I said there were some good ones, but at no time did I say ALL of them were good. There's a couple I've glimpsed at that I wouldn't want to be caught with them in my hands. This doesn't mean that they're all that quality. What the problem is that you said that Star Trek authors "probably can't" get published elsewhere, and several of us listed cases indicating that Star Trek authors probably can get published. Now, of course, you can't back down, because, after all, you got pretty seriously flamed; so then you explain that the stuff they publish is bad, to which several responded listing things that they thought were good. "Willing to put up with this inferior stuff"-- Rick, some people like that stuff, they don't just put up with it. If you think the Star Trek novel you read is bad, then go ahead and post a review and explain why it's bad--don't say all Star Trek novels are bad because it's not true. What is this: you've read a Clarion anthology or so and now you think you're knowledgeable about just how it's all pap. Whatsa matter: Clarion turn you down?! L S Chabot ...decwrl!dec-rhea!dec-amber!chabot
chabot@miles.DEC (All God's chillun got guns) (08/30/85)
>You persist in failing to see logical results, Mr. Spock. Given >A. Writing under Paramount's restrictions is a bad deal and >B. A writer can write about anything in the world or out of it >then the following is probably true >C. No one writes ST novels unless he has no other choice. > >Now why would a writer have no other choice? Only because of a lack >of talent. The claim that writers write Star Trek novels because of a lack of talent is absolutely not true. I have no idea why writers might write a Star Trek novel, but I guess it might be because they too enjoyed the show. >And don't tell me that they do it because they love the characters. >Most authors are such individualistic and creative types (as artists >are) that they would always prefer to create their own characters >and settings. I don't believe there is an author alive who doesn't >think he can create characters more interesting that Kirk and Spock >and company. John M. Ford did just this in _The_Final_Reflection_: there is a framing story to introduce the story, but it is very brief and has no relevance to the story which takes place many years before the events in Star Trek. (Hmm, I think this >> section was by Jerry Boyajian (certainly not me--I'm not a bibliographer).) >>only) time authors, the percentage doesn't reflect your contention that >>Trek authors can't get work elsewhere. Sorry, but numbers don't lie. If >>you insist, I can fairly quickly give you bibliographies of non-Trek >>material published by Trek novel authors. I can guarantee that the list >>would be longer than you ever thought possible. >So if it isn't a new hack, it's an old one that's run out of steam >and run out of creativity... I've read one John M. Ford book _Princes_of_the_Air_ which came out before _The_Final_Reflection_; I've read _Dragon_Waiting_ which came out after. _Dragon_Waiting_ is exciting, and in my opinion, is probably the best he's done so far (it's certainly the most ambitious). >>> And, PUHleeze, don't hold up Vonda McIntyre as an example of good >>> SF writing... or even good Star Trek writing... not to me at any >>> rate... >> >>Whether you think McIntyre is good or not is irrelevant. She's published >>a good amount of non-Trek material, and that's what is being questioned >>here. As for the quality of her work, I can't argue opinion, but I'll >>point out: > >Hasn't had an original idea in years... The point isn't whether she's had an original idea this afternoon. It's that she has done original work. Where do you get off judging a book by its author --a work of fiction should stand on its own, and if you don't like it, fine, or if it happens to be the only good thing the author did, fine. If you don't like McIntyre, *there*are*other*good*authors*. >>(1) Most folks that I know who have read the Trek novels rate hers among >>the highest. I confess that I haven't read any Trek novels other than the >>novelizations, two of which were by McIntyre. I thought both were very >>well written. > >And what kind of highly respected SF author has to stoop to "novelizing" >a movie producer's screenplay... twice! Here's maybe a related question: what kind of highly respected SF author "stoops" to writing up a screenplays of tv series (surely worse!). How about James Blish, a highly regarded name in science fiction. I don't know what might motivate authors. However, I have heard of authors willing to work in popular media because they can make decent profits from which to support their real art. Dorothy Sayers with her Lord Peter Whimsy novels and stories is a famous example (if you don't know what else she's famous for, you're uncultured, nyah, nyah)(ahem, oops, pardon me). L S Chabot ...decwrl!dec-rhea!dec-amber!chabot
brown@utflis.UUCP (Susan Brown) (09/03/85)
In article <230@decwrl.UUCP> chabot@miles.DEC (All God's chillun got guns) writes: >>And what kind of highly respected SF author has to stoop to "novelizing" >>a movie producer's screenplay... twice! >Here's maybe a related question: what kind of highly respected SF author >"stoops" to writing up a screenplays of tv series (surely worse!). How about >James Blish, a highly regarded name in science fiction. >I don't know what might motivate authors. However, I have heard of authors >willing to work in popular media because they can make decent profits from >which to support their real art. Dorothy Sayers with her Lord Peter Whimsy >novels and stories is a famous example (if you don't know what else she's.... McIntyre told a writers' workshop at a Con here this summer that "they" (Paramount presumably) came to her to do the novelization of Wrath of Khan because they had very little time to produce it and she was known as reliable, deadline-wise, and had written a ST book before that was very well received. sb