johnw@astroatc.UUCP (11/04/85)
I'm an SF lover, and therefore hope that Einstein's theories
don't hold universally. { Newton's laws stood from his time
(17th or 18th century....please post bith/death dates if avail
....until Einstein found conditions wehre they failed (1905
and 1917? for Special and General Relativity) } Relativity
doesn't make Newton's laws nill-and-void, its applied restric-
tions, and the solves the super set problem.
For this discustion, I assume there's a new "super-set law"
that means that the speed of light, and its time/lenght/mass
dialations are of little or no concern. How the physics of
this works is *IMPOSSIBLE* to speculate on because no such
physical law is presented.
Now my questions:
1: How fast are each of the warp factors (in light units
per unit of time or number of times faster than light
abbreviated: Xc)
A: Someone told me, and I feel it's wrong, that
velocity (in Xc) = (warp-factor) cubed.
2: How big is our galaxy?
A: My astonomy notes say something like 100,000 Lyr by 60,000 Lyr
(Major/Minor axies of enclosing elipse)
Can anyone varify this?
3: How big is the federations area of contact/exploration???
Hint: They left the galaxy twice, right? How many times
did they go "galavanting half way across the galaxy?"
(That's a quote by McCoy from "Gamsters of Triskelion"
(the thrals, the providers (3 colored brains that bid
quatlumes), the blue and yellow fighting trid....)
It was last week's local showing.
4: When the XXXX's hijacked the Enterprise to go to Andromada,\
a: How fast did they make the big E go?
b: How long did thy claim it would take to get there?
c: How far away is Andromada?
d: What Xc rate do we get for this, and does it match anything????
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Scratch work:
assume that earth to edge of galactic core or edge of outer rim is
about 20,000 Lry At warp 10 (by #1) = 1000 Xc This implies that
said trip would take 20 years at warp 10.
I like using
velocity (Xc) = 10 to the power of the warp-factor.
Then the above trip takes 20 years at warp3, 2 at warp4,
73 days at warp5, 1 week at warp6 (fasted "safe" speed) and
17 long, boring hours at warp7 (supposedly fastest speed)
--
John W
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Name: John F. Wardale
UUCP: ... {seismo | harvard | ihnp4} !uwvax!astroatc!johnw
arpa: astroatc!johnw@rsch.wisc.edu
snail: 5800 Cottage Gr. Rd. ;;; Madison WI 53716
audio: 608-221-9001 eXt 110
To err is human, to really foul up world news requires the net!barmar@mit-eddie.UUCP (Barry Margolin) (11/06/85)
In article <228@astroatc.UUCP> johnw@astroatc.UUCP (John F. Wardale) writes: >1: How fast are each of the warp factors > A: Someone told me, and I feel it's wrong, that > velocity (in Xc) = (warp-factor) cubed. This is indeed the official formula, as published in the Star Fleet Technical Manual. >2: How big is our galaxy? > A: My astonomy notes say something like 100,000 Lyr by 60,000 Lyr > (Major/Minor axies of enclosing elipse) > Can anyone varify this? Those numbers sound very familiar. I assume that the 60KLyr is in the Z direction, perpendicular to the galactic plane, because the galaxic spiral should be circular, right? >3: How big is the federations area of contact/exploration??? > Hint: They left the galaxy twice, right? How many times > did they go "galavanting half way across the galaxy?" Come on, that's a figure of speech. -- Barry Margolin ARPA: barmar@MIT-Multics UUCP: ..!genrad!mit-eddie!barmar
barmar@mit-eddie.UUCP (Barry Margolin) (11/06/85)
In article <228@astroatc.UUCP> johnw@astroatc.UUCP (John F. Wardale) writes: > c: How far away is Andromada? I just checked in an encyclopedia (the on-line encyclopedia available on Dow Jones News/Retrieval). The Andromeda galaxy is 2.2 million light years away. I was slightly surprised that the distance is only an order of magnitude larger than the circumference of the Milky Way (I was expecting a distance on the order of 100 million light years. -- Barry Margolin ARPA: barmar@MIT-Multics UUCP: ..!genrad!mit-eddie!barmar
andrew@cadomin.UUCP (Andrew Folkins) (11/08/85)
In article <228@astroatc.UUCP> johnw@astroatc.UUCP (John F. Wardale) writes: >Now my questions: >2: How big is our galaxy? > A: My astonomy notes say something like 100,000 Lyr by 60,000 Lyr > (Major/Minor axies of enclosing elipse) > Can anyone varify this? The Milky Way galaxy is on the order of 100,000 light-years in diameter, with a width of about 10,000 light-years for the disk and 30,000 for the core. New theories, however, imply that there exists a lot (!!) of dark matter outside the visible portion of a typical galaxy, meaning that the Milky Way could be considerably larger than the figures given above, though it is doubtful that the extra matter would come as stars, seeing as it's dark. >4: When the XXXX's hijacked the Enterprise to go to Andromada,\ > a: How fast did they make the big E go? > b: How long did thy claim it would take to get there? > c: How far away is Andromada? > d: What Xc rate do we get for this, and does it match anything???? > >Name: John F. Wardale If I remember correctly, the transit time was 300 years. The Andromeda galaxy is about 2,000,000 light years away, giving an average speed of about 6660c. If the velocity varies as the warp factor cubed, this would be about warp 19. I think the Kalvans modified the Enterprise to do warp 11 (<-- questionable value), giving a fine relationship between warp speed, the speed of light, and any random fudge factor. Personally, I think : warp 1 --> slow, warp 2 --> not quite as slow, . . ., warp 9 --> Scotty := "She canna take it much longer, Capt'n", warp 10+ --> Enterprise += alien technology, which for some reason ALWAYS disappears at the end of the episode (the cloaking device Kirk stole, the modifications by Nomad, etc.).
m1b@rayssd.UUCP (M. Joseph Barone) (11/13/85)
In article <641@cadomin.UUCP> andrew@cadomin.UUCP (Andrew Folkins) writes: > If I remember correctly, the transit time was 300 years. The Andromeda galaxy > is about 2,000,000 light years away, giving an average speed of about 6660c. One cannot just plug these values into the Newtonian equation: x = 1/2at^2 + vt + x0 when dealing with values of v -> c. I inferred that the 300 years was the subjective time for the crew so this amount of time cannot be used in the above equation. Who knows how long the trip would appear to an observer on Earth. Regardless, this is a moot topic since there aren't any equations for warp mathematics. > ... Personally, I think : > > warp 1 --> slow, > warp 2 --> not quite as slow, > . . ., > warp 9 --> Scotty := "She canna take it much longer, Capt'n", > warp 10+ --> Enterprise += alien technology, which for some reason I agree. Joe Barone, {allegra, decvax!brunix, linus, ccice5}!rayssd!m1b Raytheon Co, Submarine Signal Div., Box 330, Portsmouth, RI 02871
ins_bbdg@jhunix.UUCP (Bruce Dani Goldstein) (11/18/85)
> > In article <641@cadomin.UUCP> andrew@cadomin.UUCP (Andrew Folkins) > writes: > > If I remember correctly, the transit time was 300 years. The Andromeda galaxy > > is about 2,000,000 light years away, giving an average speed of about 6660c. > > One cannot just plug these values into the Newtonian equation: > x = 1/2at^2 + vt + x0 when dealing with values of v -> c. I inferred > that the 300 years was the subjective time for the crew so this amount > of time cannot be used in the above equation. Who knows how long the > trip would appear to an observer on Earth. Regardless, this is a moot > topic since there aren't any equations for warp mathematics. > > Joe Barone, {allegra, decvax!brunix, linus, ccice5}!rayssd!m1b > Raytheon Co, Submarine Signal Div., Box 330, Portsmouth, RI 02871 Although I agree with the fact that as v -> c, subjective time for observers would not be the same as that for the crew, we have no mathematics relating the relative perception of time when v > c. Therefore, one could conceive of the possibility that the 300 years mentioned could be the same for the crew as well as for Star Fleet. --Bruce@jhunix "I'm a doctor not a scriptwriter!"