elb@mtx5d.UUCP (Ellen Bart) (12/16/85)
References: Okay, I am willing to accept the consensus of the net. I have had a long-standing arguement with my brother about the ending to a private little war. I maintain that Kirk in the end realizes that flintlocks would be a horrible escalation to an already bad situation, recovers from Nona's spell since she is dead, and reverses (fails to confirm) his order to Scotty about the flintlocks. (evidence in my favor includes the fact that Kirk sighs, says "serpents, Scotty, serpents for the Garden of Eden. Beam us up." and does not restate the order and the fact that McCoy has been arguing against the flintlocks and Kirk has only overruled him while under Nona's spell) My brother, however, says I am a naive romantic and that of course Tyree gets the flintlocks despite McCoy, the Prime Directive, and the influence of the spell. Okay. You vote. ihnp4!mtx5d!elb Ellen Bart Middletown NJ MT2C512
friedman@uiucdcs.CS.UIUC.EDU (12/27/85)
Re. Ellen Bart's argument with her brother over A Private Little War:
Ellen, I'm afraid I have to agree with your brother when he says you're
a naive romantic. :-)
The Prime Directive no longer applies; the Klingon interference can
only be countered as Kirk has argued. Since the culture has already
been disturbed, the closest one can come to the spirit of the P.D. is
to try to patch things up for the closest possible scenario to the
original culture. I can't think of anything better than Kirk's
decision (can you?). It certainly won't do to let the town people,
with their imported flintlock technology, destroy the hill people
(and, not so incidentally, lead the planet into the Klingon Empire).
Did you notice Tyree at the end? In his anguish over Nona's death at
the hands of the townsmen, he shows definite agressive signs. He will
fight. This only adds to Kirk's anguish, but I see nothing to support
the idea that this changes Kirk's mind.
By the way, since when did an order have to be confirmed to be carried out?
The order had been issued, and was not countermanded, therefore Scott must
carry it out.
As for Nona's spell, I agree with Kirk's statement that he was under no
spell when he made this decision. The only real spell I think he was
under was when she tried to seduce him by rubbing the juice of that flower
on his skin, and that was long after his decision on the flintlocks.
H. George Friedman, Jr.
Department of Computer Science
University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
1304 West Springfield Avenue
Urbana, Illinois 61801
USENET: ...!{pur-ee,ihnp4,convex}!uiucdcs!friedman
CSNET: friedman%uiuc@csnet-relay.arpa
ARPA: friedman@uiuc.arpajody@inuxd.UUCP (JoLinda Ross) (12/27/85)
> Okay, I am willing to accept the consensus of the net. > > I have had a long-standing arguement with my brother about > the ending to a private little war. I maintain that Kirk in > the end realizes that flintlocks would be a horrible escalation > to an already bad situation, recovers from Nona's spell since > she is dead, and reverses (fails to confirm) his order to > Scotty about the flintlocks. (evidence in my favor includes > the fact that Kirk sighs, says "serpents, Scotty, serpents for > the Garden of Eden. Beam us up." and does not restate the order > and the fact that McCoy has been arguing against the flintlocks > and Kirk has only overruled him while under Nona's spell) > > My brother, however, says I am a naive romantic and that of > course Tyree gets the flintlocks despite McCoy, the Prime > Directive, and the influence of the spell. > > Okay. You vote. > > ihnp4!mtx5d!elb > > > Ellen Bart > Middletown NJ MT2C512 -------------------------- My Mail doesn't work so I will post my vote here. Unfortunately, I belive Tyree gets the flintlocks. I don't think Scotty beamed down snakes for Tyree's people to fight with. Kirk had to give them a chance against the Klingon influence. I didn't like the word Klingon for time after that show. jody
mnw@trwrba.UUCP (Michael N. Washington) (01/08/86)
In article <739@mtx5d.UUCP> elb@mtx5d.UUCP (Ellen Bart) writes: >References: > >Okay, I am willing to accept the consensus of the net. > >I have had a long-standing arguement with my brother about >the ending to a private little war. I maintain that Kirk in >the end realizes that flintlocks would be a horrible escalation >to an already bad situation, recovers from Nona's spell since >she is dead, and reverses (fails to confirm) his order to >Scotty about the flintlocks. (evidence in my favor includes >the fact that Kirk sighs, says "serpents, Scotty, serpents for >the Garden of Eden. Beam us up." and does not restate the order >and the fact that McCoy has been arguing against the flintlocks >and Kirk has only overruled him while under Nona's spell) > >My brother, however, says I am a naive romantic and that of >course Tyree gets the flintlocks despite McCoy, the Prime >Directive, and the influence of the spell. > >Okay. You vote. > >ihnp4!mtx5d!elb > > >Ellen Bart >Middletown NJ MT2C512 Tyree received the flint locks but only after the villagers brutally killed his wife. At that point, he wanted to hunt down the people responsible for his wife's death. He did have hate in his eyes. Kirk just tried to keep the balance of power by supplying the hill people with flintlocks since the Klingons provided the villagers with the firearms. That was the reason the Enterprise was there. "Live Long and Prosper!" Michael N. Washington TRW E&DS Redondo Beach, Ca. 90278 {ucbvax,decvax,hplabs}!trwrb!trwrba!mnw
howie@cucca.UUCP (Howie Kaye) (01/11/86)
In article <1777@trwrba.UUCP> mnw@trwrba.UUCP (Michael N. Washington) writes: >Tyree received the flint locks but only after the villagers brutally >killed his wife. At that point, he wanted to hunt down the people >responsible for his wife's death. He did have hate in his eyes. > >Kirk just tried to keep the balance of power by supplying the hill >people with flintlocks since the Klingons provided the villagers >with the firearms. That was the reason the Enterprise was there. > The enterprise was there, on a scientific expedition. They were supposed to avoid all inhabitants -- villagers and hill people. They only found out that the klingons were there, aiding the villagers, after Spock is shot, and Kirk is cured. McCoy gets a tricorder reading of one in the villagers armory. Kirk's supplying of flintlocks is a later issue altogether. -- Howie Kaye Sy.Howie@CU20B.ARPA Columbia University HKAUS@cuvma (bitnet) System's Integration Group {?}!seismo!columbia!cucca!howie
MW9@PSUVM.BITNET (03/12/86)
Well, I am sure this has been discussed before, but I just saw
the episode last night and wanted to put in my 2 cents.
In my opinion, Kirk violated the prime directive up and down
the pike. The balance of power is a fine idea, but don't give
guns to Tyree, but take them away from the hill people. (I think
it was the hill people the Kilngons were backing.) I mean, kick the
Klingons' butts and then come down and take away all the guns.
They would never be able to make them again, since they didn't
make them in the first place. Remember, the barrels were too nice
to have been made on the primitive forge. Ah well, Kirk has said it
himself that he is a soldier and not a politician. Although you'd think
on a mission to meet new people, you'd want a politician along.
"No, I wouldn't call it fascinating, Captain, merely... interesting."
-------
Michael S. Weiss
The Pennsylvania State University
MW9@PSUVM.BITNET
<* The opinions expressed by me do not reflect those held *>
<* by my school nor those of my employer. (If I had one.) *>
mnw@trwrba.UUCP (Michael N. Washington) (03/14/86)
In article <4534MW9@PSUVM> MW9@PSUVM.BITNET writes: > > >Well, I am sure this has been discussed before, but I just saw >the episode last night and wanted to put in my 2 cents. >In my opinion, Kirk violated the prime directive up and down >the pike. The balance of power is a fine idea, but don't give >guns to Tyree, but take them away from the hill people. (I think >it was the hill people the Klingons were backing.) I mean, kick the >Klingons' butts and then come down and take away all the guns. >They would never be able to make them again, since they didn't >make them in the first place. Remember, the barrels were too nice >to have been made on the primitive forge. Ah well, Kirk has said it >himself that he is a soldier and not a politician. Although you'd think >on a mission to meet new people, you'd want a politician along. > >"No, I wouldn't call it fascinating, Captain, merely... interesting." >------- > >Michael S. Weiss >The Pennsylvania State University >MW9@PSUVM.BITNET > ><* The opinions expressed by me do not reflect those held *> ><* by my school nor those of my employer. (If I had one.) *> > I disagree. For one thing, Kirk and gang could not pick a fight with the Klingons without it escalating into a full fledge "war" which of course the Organians would not allow. Next, once the hill people had the knowledge of guns, they would soon learn how to make them. Of course they would be crude compared to the guns that the Klingons provided, but none the less, they would make more. Take Tyree for example, he was unwilling to fight until his wife was murdered. At that point, he could not get enough guns (my interpretation) to avenge his wife's death. Once that happened, there was no turning back. I do wish another solution could have been found. I really hate wars and think they are a complete waste of everything! The debate goes on. "Live Long and Prosper!" Michael N. Washington TRW E&DS Redondo Beach, Ca. 90278 {ucbvax,decvax,hplabs}!trwrb!trwrba!mnw
polish@garfield.columbia.edu (Nathaniel Polish) (03/15/86)
Tyree is a "hill-person," the villagers got the guns.
bl@hplabsb.UUCP (Bruce T. Lowerre) (03/25/86)
> Well, I am sure this has been discussed before, but I just saw > the episode last night and wanted to put in my 2 cents. > In my opinion, Kirk violated the prime directive up and down > the pike. The balance of power is a fine idea, but don't give > guns to Tyree, but take them away from the hill people. (I think > it was the hill people the Kilngons were backing.) I mean, kick the The Klingons were backing the town people. > Klingons' butts and then come down and take away all the guns. > They would never be able to make them again, since they didn't > make them in the first place. Remember, the barrels were too nice > to have been made on the primitive forge. Ah well, Kirk has said it > himself that he is a soldier and not a politician. Although you'd think > on a mission to meet new people, you'd want a politician along. > > "No, I wouldn't call it fascinating, Captain, merely... interesting." Many of the ST stories were parables of the news events of the times. If South Viet Nam is substituted for the Hill People, North Viet Nam for the town people, Russia for the Klingons, and the U.S. for Kirk and company, then you will see the reason for Kirk's actions.
MW9@PSUVM.BITNET (03/26/86)
In article <3363@hplabsb.UUCP>, bl@hplabsb.UUCP (Bruce T. Lowerre) says: >Many of the ST stories were parables of the news events of the times. If >South Viet Nam is substituted for the Hill People, North Viet Nam for the >town people, Russia for the Klingons, and the U.S. for Kirk and company, >then you will see the reason for Kirk's actions. I may see the reason for it then, but it still sucks. Vietnam was bad, too. Remember? (I know bad is an understatement, but that sort of encompasses the whole thing.) Face it, Kirk screwed up big time in this episode. His 'soldier' side got the best of him. ------- "Science does not remove the Terror of the Gods." -J.R. "Bob" Dobbs, The Church of the SubGenius Michael S. Weiss The Pennsylvania State University MW9@PSUVM.BITNET <* The opinions expressed by me do not reflect those held *> <* by my school nor those of my employer. (If I had one.) *>
mnw@trwrba.UUCP (Michael N. Washington) (03/28/86)
In article <4642MW9@PSUVM> MW9@PSUVM.BITNET writes: > >I may see the reason for it then, but it still sucks. Vietnam >was bad, too. Remember? (I know bad is an understatement, but >that sort of encompasses the whole thing.) Face it, Kirk screwed >up big time in this episode. His 'soldier' side got the best of him. >------- > >"Science does not remove the Terror of the Gods." > -J.R. "Bob" Dobbs, The Church of the SubGenius > >Michael S. Weiss >The Pennsylvania State University >MW9@PSUVM.BITNET > I cannot agree with this. Kirk had no choice. He did not screw up. It goes back the the old adage, "Once the apple of knowledge is bitten, you cannot goes back as before!". Again I use Tyree as an example. Remember, he resisted using guns until his wife was murdered while he watched. After her death, he learned how to use a gun! In order to keep the villagers from wiping out the hill people, Kirk and gang had to balance the power with the same type of weapon the Klingons provided. I absolutely detest war as a means of attempting to solve problems, but I know in reality, some crazy people insist on having a war. I do believe in defending ones self or country against aggressiveness of other individuals or countries who insist on attempting to take what does not belong to them. "Live Long and Prosper!" Michael N. Washington TRW E&DS Redondo Beach, Ca. 90278 {ucbvax,decvax,hplabs}!trwrb!trwrba!mnw
bl@hplabsb.UUCP (Bruce T. Lowerre) (03/31/86)
> > > In article <3363@hplabsb.UUCP>, bl@hplabsb.UUCP (Bruce T. Lowerre) says: > > >Many of the ST stories were parables of the news events of the times. If > >South Viet Nam is substituted for the Hill People, North Viet Nam for the > >town people, Russia for the Klingons, and the U.S. for Kirk and company, > >then you will see the reason for Kirk's actions. > > I may see the reason for it then, but it still sucks. Vietnam > was bad, too. Remember? (I know bad is an understatement, but > that sort of encompasses the whole thing.) Face it, Kirk screwed > up big time in this episode. His 'soldier' side got the best of him. Did the U.S. do any better? :-)