wasser_1@viking.DEC (John A. Wasser) (05/07/85)
Here are the results of my request for SCUBA equipment
recommendations. The responses are sorted by type of
equipment and are somewhat paraphrased to retain context
and reduce size. Thanks to everyone who responded!
-John A. Wasser
(First open-water dive on May 18th!)
Work address:
ARPAnet: WASSER%VIKING.DEC@decwrl.ARPA
Usenet: {allegra,Shasta,decvax}!decwrl!dec-rhea!dec-viking!wasser
Easynet: VIKING::WASSER
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WHAT TO BUY:
GENERAL ADVICE:
"In my opinion it makes little difference in what you buy.
Just enjoy diving and don't get hung-up on buying equipment."
"First, get a GOOD suit (dry or wet, depending on whether you
like cold water diving... ). Second, regulator or buoyancy
compensator."
"If you try to buy all of this stuff at one time,
it'll break you and make it harder to afford dive
trips. I bought my stuff over a period of a year
and a half. Personal things like a regulator were
first on my list. Things like tanks and weights
were last on my list."
"Don't buy anything but mask, fins and snorkel, unless
maybe you live within walking distance of the great barrier
reef. The vast majority of all scuba equipment bought
by beginners ends up just gathering dust. You can always
rent now and buy later once you've learned something
about what you want. Every interesting dive spot in
the world has some enterprising local with a shack full
of equipment right next to it. Remember, you have to find
someone with a healthy air supply to refill your tank
anyway. That someone will also rent equipment."
"Certainly leave a tank purchase for last. You won't
want to/won't be allowed to take it on a plane, so you
couldn't use it on the diving vacation you must be
looking forward to."
"Leave a camera purchase for extra-last."
MASKS FINS AND SNORKELS:
"The silicone masks are worth the price. They fit better."
"If you don't already have snorkel mask and fins
of your own, check out some of the silicone stuff
(like Plana fins). They're light and seem to hold
up longer to everything except heat. Be forewarned,
the car heater on a friends VW bug melted his pair!"
"Silicone masks are usually more comfortable and *I*
think visibility is better due to more light coming
in. Don't pair a silicone mask with a regular snorkel,
though. It'll ruin the silicone (don't forget a
silicone snorkel keeper in your spares kit, too.)."
"Buy a mask that fits real well. I'd say "buy the
best fitting mask you can find, regardless" but that
might get out of hand price-wise. I can promise you
that you will be miserable if you have a leaky mask."
"Try on EVERY mask you can lay your hands on. A truly
good fit will allow you to place the mask on your face
(no fair pushing it on!) with your face pointing towards
the floor, sniff in just a tiny bit, hold your breath
(without sniffing in any more), and you should find that
you have to breathe before the mask falls off. If it
requires more sniffing to hold it on, keep looking.
If you have a mustache, you're in for a long search."
"You might wish to buy a snorkel, since you generally
keep it strapped to the mask, so renting just a snorkel
would be just a pain."
"If you buy mask, snorkel and fins, you will then have
everything needed to just snorkel, which can turn out
to be a big win. There's lots of times you won't WANT
to scuba. But if you have to travel a long ways (read
"fly") to where you will do any of this, remember that
fins can be big and heavy in your luggage."
REGULATORS:
"Get something high quality..."
"Buy the best that you can afford. In New England, you
will find yourself in some environments (scalloping)
that will make you want to have an 'environmental'
regulator which is one that is sealed from the water
and has the valve mechanisms in silicone. This avoids
freeze-ups and dirt causing problems."
"I have a DACOR 950XL which I think is great. It has
two exhaust valves, so exhaling (the hard part) is easy.
Make sure you breath with the regulator before buying it.
Although you'll be testing it a 1 ATM, it's still a
good test to see if you like the delivery."
"The first stage on your regulator should have at least
three low pressure ports and two high pressure ports.
One low pressure port for the second stage, one for the
BC inflator and one extra. One high pressure port for
the pressure gauge and one extra."
"Sherwood Magnum (It's fairly cheap from any mail
order ($115.00) and it's rugged as well as light)."
"I have a SCUBAPRO MK VII. This is the one with
the audio reserve (I don't like the thought of
running out of air when a J valve cuts out). It
is having a problem now with the audio reserve,
but I attribute all of that to some bozo that screwed
it up a few years ago. Several of my friends
have this regulator and have had no problems. I'll
probably buy another (I'll try once more to have
someone fix it)."
BUOYANCY COMPENSATORS:
"...get something high quality. If you still run into
horse-collar BC's down there, don't buy one."
"Fit is the primary concern. Ease of use might be
important too! Two types, horse-collars (yechh!) and
vests (yea!). I have a vest type that also incorporates
the backpack. Things to look out for are the need
for a crotch strap (yechh!), where are the air bladders
(front is good, back is not), pockets (lots to store
goodies in -- like a lobster gauge) and most important,
the inflator mechanism. Make sure the operation of the
mechanism is easy!"
"I've been using a Tabata vest. Cheap but reliable."
"I originally bought a chest mount (money was the
reason). It does have the advantage of floating
you face up if you have a problem and end up
unconscious on the surface. It was a real pain
since it had to go on first and then you couldn't
see your straps, etc. when you tried to put your
tank on."
"I bought a Dacor jacket and am using it without
the backpack straps. Goes on real easy, and has
all sorts of loops to tie down your hoses to keep
them in the front and out of the way. The pockets
are useful for extra weights. I really like this
jacket and recommend it or one like it. Don't buy
a chest mount unless you are strapped for cash
Get the mechanical inflator inflating by lung power
is too slow."
GAUGES:
"You must have a pressure gauge on your regulator
(if you are serious) and you should get one that reads
to 5000 psi. Aluminum tanks are now at 3000 psi but
a 4000 psi tank is soon to be available (cheaper)."
"If you have a steady buddy, you can split the cost of a
depth gauge (I have one, my wife does not). Don't go
for one that reads to 300 ft., you can't go that deep.
What you need is one that goes to 150 ft. A 'bubble'
depth gauge has a non-linear scale that expands on low
readings and is the cheapest."
"You should use a closed-tube depth gauge to measure
depth of dive and an open tube (capillary) gauge to
allow you to make your safety stop at ten feet. The
former gauge is not very precise but is equally precise
at all depths. The capillary gauge is very precise
at shallow depths but not when you get deep."
"I prefer the Tekna consoles for readability and size."
"Get a Bottom Timer (pressure actuated stop watch). Perfect."
"I originally bought a capillary type depth gauge.
Good to about 80 feet and real good readability at
0-20 feet. Useless at night (it could not be read).
Cheap and reliable. I'd probably still be using it
if it wasn't for night diving."
"The 150' or less oil filled gauges are generally
the best. The ones that indicate deeper generally
don't have very good resolution (and you're not
likely to even reach 150', never mind any deeper)."
"A Console looks like an unnecessary piece of
gear until you have had the experience of strapping
numerous gauges on your arms in the hot sun with
your gloves on. I got the Scubapro one. It holds
three gauges (pressure, depth, and compass) and I
strap my bottom timer on the back."
SUITS:
"I used a wet suit for about 150 dives and have now been
in a dry suit for another 150 ... except for the tropics,
I'd never use a wet suit again."
"Get a dry suit! For the cost of a BC and a wetsuit,
you can get a dry suit. They are much warmer, and
you don't get wet!"
"I'm shopping around for a dry suit at the moment...
Wet suits just don't keep me warm enough up here
in the Northwest. I'm currently using a wet suit
(1/4 inch, high waist) that I bought used (a rental)
for $40.00."
"You can buy really nice ones off the rack at a
store for big bucks. You can buy a custom-made
one from a store for BIG bucks. Or, believe it
or not, you can buy a decent custom-made one
from "Skin Diver Wetsuits" or some such for
little bucks (i.e. $65). They don't have nylon
fabric fused to the outside, so they're not as tough
as those that do, but unless you use it a whole lot,
that really doesn't matter that much. Certainly
it's great for a first-time buyer. They run ads
in skin diver magazine, a tall vertical ad in
black and white. Mine didn't fit all that well,
so I sent it back with a note saying "move the
waistline down 4", take it in 3", take the chest
in 2", blah, blah, blah". It came back 2 weeks
later as specified. They guarantee satisfaction."
"I originally bought a cheap Nylon I wet suit.
Mistake. It didn't fit well enough, leaked,
pooled water and the rubber outside made it real
tough to put your tank on (straps don't like to
slide on the rubber)."
"Friends have bought custom wet suits. Get
Nylon II and get the kind that is stretchy. The
stretchy ones fit much better and go on much better.
Be careful who you buy your suit from, as some custom
fitters don't do a good job. Bailey does a real good
job (my buddy would have about 50% of the inside of
his suit dry after a dive). Get a custom hood too."
"I currently have a dry suit (Imperial bubble). I
let the shop talk me into a stock size. Mistake.
Dry suits don't have to fit as well as wet suits,
but any excess area is a good place to trap air.
When you ascend, the air expands and rockets you to
the surface. I had two episodes of trapped air in
my feet sending me to the surface, feet up, face down.
The boots expanded enough to pull the fins off
my feet so I couldn't use them. Imagine having two
soccer balls attached to your feet and then trying
to get your feet down. Real tough. The problems
has solutions. Get a good custom fit (if I get another
suit I will have it made a bit too small). Get fin
retainers (sort of a triangular set of neoprene straps
that go under your foot, over your foot and behind your
heel). These limit how far your bootee can expand and
prevents your fins from coming off your heel. Also, ankle
weights help. I made a pair with stretch denim,
lead shot and fastec (sp?) fasteners. You can buy them for
about $30. Comment on dry suits: much warmer then wet suits
and generally easier to put on. All dry suits are not
totally dry (the bubble seeps a little, most will get you
through the inflate/deflate hose). Wear wool or polypropylene
under the suit."
TANKS:
"Since you'll have to buy air, unless you have a
compressor, and pay $3-4 for it you'll find a
payback on tanks of about 20 dives. (renting
about $9-10)"
"If you buy, make sure you get aluminum (steel maintain-
ence is expensive) and get a Sherwood valve. The valve is
designed to make carrying the tank ultra easy. US Divers
valves pinch the skin."
"80 cu ft tanks are the norm, and this will give a
beginner about 60 minutes at 30 ft. If you need
more, like if you really suck a lot of air, you
might consider a 96 cu ft steel ($ to maintain and
higher initial $), but it will allow you to stay down
with your buddies."
"all the aluminum tanks are made by the same outfit, so
get the cheapest you find (mail order)"
"Any brand will do since there are only two places in
the US that actually manufacture them. Just be careful
of used tanks with custom paint jobs and/or non-current
Hydro-stat test date."
"Should get all the same type as buoyancy is different. Also
makes it so you don't have to fiddle with your tank bands.
Little known fact about aluminum tanks: the internal volume
is slightly less than a steel tank. If you can't get 3000 lb
air, your aluminum 80cf tanks will actually hold LESS air than
a steel 72."
"You can rent tanks, all of which are like ones
you might own. Since dive shops pay little for
maintenance on these (in comparison to regulators,
BCs, wet/dry suits), they charge little for you
to use them. You can usually rent a tank (full)
for $3 - $5 a day. Most shops will charge at least
$2 to fill a tank you own. I can walk in to a shop
and rent a full tank for only a dollar more and be
out before they can fill an empty (so even if you
own a tank, you have to stop at the dive shop)."
BOATS:
"Zodiac type boats are ideal for diving. Low freeboard,
don't rock as much as a normal boat. Soft sides are nice
for entry and exit. These boats don't make a good speed
boat because they tend to skim over the top of the water.
This means you go OVER wakes rather then through them. If you
get one, buy a 12v inflator (raft places have them). Don't
let the small size fool you. Mine will inflate my Zodiac in
three minutes (it takes about 20min using the foot pump)."
WHERE TO BUY:
GENERAL ADVICE:
"...if there's a PADI 5-star facility
in the neighborhood, you might try there first."
"the best source of info is a dive shop that you can trust."
"You get a benefit from paying about 10% more at a
local shop which is the knowledge and experience
(great place to learn about dive sites) from being
associated with a shop."
MAIL ORDER:
"Things like tanks, you can buy mail order through
New England Divers in Beverly."
"The only mail order place I've dealt with recently is
Laguna Sea Sports in CA. They're really a chain of
stores but they also do mail order. They advertise in
Skin Diver, prices are reasonable and delivery runs
about 5 - 8 working days."
SPECIFIC SHOPS:
"We spent lots of money at 'Underwater Sports' in
Salem, NH (no tax!) and were very pleased with the
shops' knowledge (especially Lynn, he's a instructor
there)."wmartin@brl-tgr.ARPA (Will Martin ) (05/08/85)
Anyone want to post comments on divers' knives? What is the general attitude toward the "WENOKA" brand divers' knives? Are they considered to be among the best, run-of-the-mill, or poor? How would they compare to some of the Japanese imports, like "Sunfish", in your opinion? What about sources? I suppose all the mail-order places carry knives; are any of these distinctly lower-priced than others? Will Martin USENET: seismo!brl-bmd!wmartin or ARPA/MILNET: wmartin@almsa-1.ARPA
jah@brunix.UUCP (Jim Hendler) (05/09/85)
A couple of quick "meta" comments about the equipment list: a) Be aware that one should NOT ever use a dry suit until you've had some special training (or at least tried it in a pool). I've known several divers to be in dangerous situations due to inexperience at wet-suit use, and they were all instructor level. b) In ALL dive gear comfort is more important than brand or etc. At a recent instructors' gathering we were comparing eqpt. and discovered that there was little (or no) agreement about anything except the above. c) Don't "pooh pooh" horse collar BCs. I own 5 BCs (6 if you include the one that says "Federal Offense to remove from the Aircraft") including 3 horse collar and 2 vest type. I now use my "Fenzy" horse collar style BC almost exclusively. (It uses a spare O2 bottle for power inflation, thus providing a breathable back-up for emergencies). I don't recommend this for everyone but I find it more comfortable during the dive (far less drag than my vest type BCs). Again -- go with personal comfort over anything else (see b). d) Dive knives weren't included in your equiptment list. Neither were compasses. I won't recommend brands or types, but it is a serious mistake to dive without both of these. The dive knife especially, I only NEEDED it once (in about 250 dives), but I wouldn't be here writing this message if I hadn't had it that time... Good diving, Jim Hender
kurtk@tektronix.UUCP (Kurt Krueger) (05/13/85)
There are two basic types of stainless that is used in dive knives. The normal large knife is made of a very corrosion resistant alloy. It won't take much of an edge. Trying to cut something underwater with one of these is sort of like bludgeoning with a blunt object. The other type of stainless is usually used on the smaller knives. Lots of manufacturers make these (Tekna, Dacor, etc.). They hold a real good edge but will get red rust spots after every dive. You've got to rinse these immediately after every dive, and sharpen them often. They can get very sharp. I carry one of each on my dives. The big one is a general tool, pry bar, club, etc. The little on is for cutting fish line.
atkins@opus.UUCP (Brian Atkins) (05/17/85)
With respect to the Mark VII first stage from ScubaPro, I would suggest
against it. The Mark VII's main selling point is the fact that it's
audible. The problems with it include the size, huge, the fact that it does
not rotate, making set up, storage, and many hose usage a real problem.
The primary fact that I don't like it is, aside from the inconvenience
of the shape/design, that you shouldn't rely on such a device. You
should have a gauge that has been checked recently and is in general
trust worthy. You should look at it frequently, especially under
conditions you're not used to (depth, diving at altitude, etc.). It
should be obvious when it fails. If you have been at 40 feet for 20
minutes, and the gauge reads much higher (or lower) than your normal
consumption under the conditions would allow, you should be suspicious.
If it is off by just a small amount, not enough to make you worried about
your gauge, then your end of dive reserve (300psi or so at least) should
keep you safe. If you are ever in doubt, go up and get it checked.
In short, if you ever hear an audible without almost anticipating the
first clang (or breath out on a J-valve without anticipating that), you
should NOT be in the water at all!
One side note. A friend of mine just got back from Cancun. He was on
a dive with a local guide when he was tapped on the shoulder. The GUIDE
was there in a rather bad way since he was completely out of air!! I guess
he took an empty tank with just a J-valve. The pressure was just enough to let
him get to depth before he ran out. Unfortunately, his reserve was what he just
ran out of. Whether the J-valve was down when he set up, or it fell down
later, Luckily, my friend has an octopus. Buddy breathing with someone
like that would not be a casual experience!
Has anyone else heard this kind of stuff? Especially from Cancun/Cosumel?
Brian Atkins ...{attunix, hao, allegra, ucbvax}!nbires!atkins
NBI Inc., P.O. Box 9001, Boulder CO 80301 (303) 444-5710