[net.physics] Off the Wall. . .

peschman (12/15/82)

#N:uicsovax:19400001:000:845
uicsovax!peschman    Dec 15 11:07:00 1982


	This might sound kinda strange, but to my limited backround 
in physics, it makes a little sense.  Could one of you please explain
it me.  The question concerns the Philosophy of Phisics (kinda).

	1) We know that systems of things tend to gravitate toward
	   their lowest energy state (electron falls to the inside 
	   of the atom, and a rock rolls down a hill).
	2) Consider the universe as a system, it too would tend to-
	   ward the lowest possible energy state.  With this in mind,
	   why is there anything.  Could it be that 'nothing' has
	   more energy than 'something'?  Why would anything ( of
	   substance) exist unless 'nothing' had more energy than
	   'something'?

	I am sure that there are glaring flaws in this statement, but
I would be interested in hearing what they are.

			Tom Peschman
		(uiucdcs!uicsovax!peschman)

sjb (12/16/82)

The Universe DOES tend towards lowest possible energy and
highest possible randomness.  It is happening right now.
It's not instantaneous, after all, there's a lot of matter
(and other good stuff) out there, but rather it takes
beeeelyuns and beeeelyuns of years.

dhp (12/16/82)

Adam,
	A comment concerning the use of the term 'beeeelyuns'.
	A friend of mine recently invented a new word to cover
	this kind of statement: the SAGAN.  A SAGAN is an
	expression of arbitrarily large number of items in an
	amorphous collection (i.e. "The are sagans of fools in the
	world").  Note that the phrase "sagans and sagans" should
	not be used, since this is redundant.
	

					Douglas Price
					Analysts International Corp.
					at BTL (Indian Hill) IL
					...!ihnss!ihima!dhp (312) 979-4416

dhp@sri-unix (12/16/82)

Adam,
	A comment concerning the use of the term 'beeeelyuns'.
	A friend of mine recently invented a new word to cover
	this kind of statement: the SAGAN.  A SAGAN is an
	expression of arbitrarily large number of items in an
	amorphous collection. It is a more or less direct replacement
	for the phrase "beeeelyuns and beeeelyuns."

		Ex: "There are sagans of fools in the world."

	Note that the phrase "sagans and sagans" should not be used,
	since this is redundant.
	

					Douglas Price
					Analysts International Corp.
					at BTL (Indian Hill) IL
					...!ihnss!ihima!dhp (312) 979-4416

P.S.: My apologies if this is the second time you have seen this.
      I had some trouble cancelling the previous version of this
      article.

gwyn.BRL-VLD@BRL (12/17/82)

From:     Doug Gwyn <gwyn.BRL-VLD@BRL>
The question "If the laws of thermodynamics say that entropy continually
increases, then how did it all get started?" is a very interesting one.
Some of the answers I have heard include:
	1) It started with an energetic "big bang".
	2) It goes in cycles and we're in an entropy-gaining part of the cycle.
	3) It's all proportional (exponential decline).
	4) It's local, and we're in an entropy-increasing pocket.
	5) It depends on cosmological considerations of various sorts.
Not necessarily all (or any) of these is correct but maybe these will stir
up some discussion.

Erwin Schrodinger had a very nice treatise called "What Is Life?" that
discusses some aspects of the problem.  (P.S.  He basically predicted
the DNA helix well before it was proven, mainly on theoretical grounds.)