SAC.LONG%USC-ISIE@sri-unix.UUCP (01/10/84)
Excuse the lateness of this response, but I have been very busy. First, before I say anymore, I must present a disclamor of sorts. All views presented herein are soley those of my own, not in any way implicative of the agency that sponsors me or the net I'm on. Now for the important things. This is my first contribution to the PHYSICS.NET since I began receiving mail from PCS at SRI-unix. I have been following the Creation vs. Evolution debates on the net with some interest, just to see what sort of opinions are about today. I must say, I am a little suprised at the reaction and "reasoning" of some "educated" people. In particular the individual who flamed at c. Stacy. (forgive. I forgot who the jerk was.) Let me first deal with a couple of his statements which are clearly secular humanism propaganda. Recall "KNOW YOUR ENEMY SON!" ? In this section of his FLAME, the author of such claimed that those supporting creationism in both the scientific community and the academic environment are a threat to our freedom, and even was ignorant enough to equate them with leaders of Marxist, Communist, and Fascist movements. How absurd. And he continued to say it is those who are committed to "one truth" that threaten us. The latter statement is true. But tell me, who is it that is dedicated to erradicating any opposing ideaology? Is it the Creationists, or is it the Evolutionists? If you have been paying half-a-mind of attention to the entire discussion, it is the evolutionists who indeed threaten freedom in society. If anyone can remember their grade school history, it was a bunch of religious outcasts who indeed established the beginnings of our nation. Go find a copy of the constitution (if you haven't marked out what you don't like from it) and read the first page or so. "All men are created equal in the sight of od." It was religious men, who believed God created the earth and man, that gave us the freedom we have. It is the community of Humanists in our society that is attempting to remove freedom from this country. And what on earth ever happened to "academic freedom"? It is my understnding that differing or opposing ideas in the scentific community are conducive to increasing knowledge. If anyone feels threatened by creationism, my own feeling is such an individual is insecure in what he thinks he knows because he knows he really doesn't know. If one were so confident in evolution, why the worry? Perhaps creationists have more credibility than some would like to think. (I can see it now --- FLAME! FLAME! FLAME To continue my thought earlier, (about the humanists threatening freedom), although I realize this is not directly, or even closely related, to the topic of Physics, I do feel as a member of a thinking community, this is a perfectly appropriate response to the non-related discussion that prompted this response. (? GOT IT?) Do you(any of you) realize that if your daughter got pregnant and wanted an abortion, you as a parent have absolutely no say-so in the court's eyes? Yes, this is already done in our society. Thank the Humanists for that. And in five states today, if a parent is told her child will be born with defects and the mother chooses not to have an abortion, the child, when of legal age, can SUE HIS MOTHER (and Father) for not aborting him as a fetus! Just think about the stupidity of this! But in five states, this has been enacted by the state legislatures as law. Tell me now, who is a threat to freedom? Not only religious and academic freedom, but the freedom to raise your own children the way you wish. In some states one can be accused of child abuse for merely spanking your own child! Boy, what would your parents think of that? This is something I would expect in a communist state, not in America the FREE (?) ! But as we sit back doing our research and discussions, the humanists take away our parental rights, religious rights, and our acacemic freedom, America the free wll become worse than even the Soviet Union if it continues. It may sound a little drastic, but think of some of those laws above I mentioned and reconsider. My dear colleagues, look at what is upon our doorstep. Do you want the state telling you how to raise your children, what you can teach them, and what religious philosophy to have? The creationist movement is only trying to prevent the loss of the freedoms, not force their ideas on everyone. They only ask for a place is society so many other freedoms in addition are not lost. The evolutionists are saying teach only evolution. So what if creationism is taught in addition to evolution! When yor kid comes home from school asking all about it, just tell him what you think, and he'll believe you, not the teacher. And most people could stand to spend a little more time talking with their kids anyhow! I have the feeling that this was not a well thought out discusion, but for sitting down and typing off the top of my head, you can see my point if you only think a little. Go back and read what what's-his-face said in his flame to CStacy. Then tell me who is limiting expression of individual thought. Beware the propaganda of Humanism. If you must, go read Nichomachean Ethics by Aristotle. He presents a very well balanced idea of society and community. Excuse this political discussion, but so was the other. Answer not a fool according to his foolishness, or else you also will be as a fool. Answer a fool according to his foolishness, or else he will be wise in his own eyes. -- Steve
burris@ihopa.UUCP (David Burris) (01/12/84)
Dear Steve, You are correct, your response has absolutely nothing to do with physics! In addition, your "rebuttal" changed its tune to discuss the abortion issue!?! What does the abortion issue have to do with the creation/evolution discussion? Then you proceed to argue parents rights. Why is it that parents rights include dictating the actions of children, thus stifling the emotional and intellectual growth and affecting their entire lives, but not the decision of the parents to affect the life of the child via abortion? Most of the people I have met who support parents "rights" believe, "I will raise MY child the way I want." CHILDREN ARE NOT TOYS TO BE POSSESSED BY ADULTS, THEY ARE LIVING, THINKING, FEELING HUMAN BEINGS!!! The children you are raising MUST be able to cope with the realities of the society, and society must be able to cope with them. By chosing what they are ALLOWED to think and feel you are creating an individual who will not be equipped with the necessary tools to make rational decisions of how to deal with a rapidly changing society! There are those who would attempt to solve this problem by preventing societal change. This is obviously not a practical solution. It wasn't that long ago that child beating was an accepted means of discipline! There were laws concerning cruel and unusual punishment for CRIMINALS long before there were laws to protect children! I will be glad to continue this discussion, but in respect to the readers of net.physics, I will not respond to any further communications regarding this topic in this news group. I suggest that net.flame or net.religion might be more appropriate. -- Dave Burris ..!ihnp4!ihopa!burris AT&T Bell Labs, Naperville, Il.