[net.physics] predicting the universe with computers

brad@looking.UUCP (Brad Templeton) (01/17/85)

I can't believe I'm looking at these postings from Computer Scientists.

No computer, now matter how powerful, can predict its OWN future, let
alone that of the universe.   Or do I have to prove to you that no
computer can predict whether an arbitrary algorithm will halt in a
limitless universe?

So the universe is definitely not predictable from within.  Whether it
is FIXED or not is another matter, of course.
-- 
Brad Templeton, Looking Glass Software Ltd. - Waterloo, Ontario 519/884-7473

djsalomon@watdaisy.UUCP (Daniel J. Salomon) (01/18/85)

> No computer, now matter how powerful, can predict its OWN future, let
> alone that of the universe.   Or do I have to prove to you that no
> computer can predict whether an arbitrary algorithm will halt in a
> limitless universe?
> 
> So the universe is definitely not predictable from within.  Whether it
> is FIXED or not is another matter, of course.
> -- 
> Brad Templeton, Looking Glass Software Ltd. - Waterloo, Ontario 519/884-7473

     The halting problem states that no Turing machine can be built
that decides whether some other arbitrary Turing machine will halt.
But there is no rule against predicting what a Turing machine will do
for the next little while.  The halting problem is more of a comment on
the inadequacy of our logic systems along the lines of Russell's
Paradox, than it is a statement about the universe.

     Turing machines also have the property that they have an infinite
tape.  This is the practical problem that one encounters when trying to
build a halt detector.  But it has not been shown that the universe is
infinite.  In fact I believe that Einstein proved that the universe is
finite.

jlg@lanl.ARPA (01/22/85)

>      The halting problem states that no Turing machine can be built
> that decides whether some other arbitrary Turing machine will halt.
> But there is no rule against predicting what a Turing machine will do
> for the next little while.  The halting problem is more of a comment on
> the inadequacy of our logic systems along the lines of Russell's
> Paradox, than it is a statement about the universe.
> 
>      Turing machines also have the property that they have an infinite
> tape.  This is the practical problem that one encounters when trying to
> build a halt detector.  But it has not been shown that the universe is
> infinite.  In fact I believe that Einstein proved that the universe is
> finite.


The halting problem is less like Russell's Paradox than it is like Godel's
Theroem.  It doesn't require the infinite tape of the turing machine, but
only that some state variable have unbounded range (I learned a proof of
it with only one such variable in an otherwise finite machine with finite
input).  However, a corollary of the halting problem does imply that no
machine can predict its own behaviour, much less the behaviour of anything
more complex than itself (even without the unbounded variable).

Einstein not only DIDN'T prove the universe finite, he didn't believe it.
For a long time Einstein supported the steady-state theory (more because he
was a relativist and didn't want to admit that there were special reference
times than because he was attached to an infinite duration universe).  He
even introduced a so-called cosmological constant into his equations for
general relativity in order to prevent it from predicting that the universe
would expand or contract.  When the evidence came that the universe was
expanding, Einstein retracted the cosmological constant - calling it the
worst error he had ever made (to introduce an idea merely to support his
own preconceived beliefs).  Still, the universe could be finite or infinite
since general relativity doesn't exclude either possibility.

gwyn@brl-tgr.ARPA (Doug Gwyn <gwyn>) (01/29/85)

> Einstein not only DIDN'T prove the universe finite, he didn't believe it.
> For a long time Einstein supported the steady-state theory (more because he
> was a relativist and didn't want to admit that there were special reference
> times than because he was attached to an infinite duration universe).  He
> even introduced a so-called cosmological constant into his equations for
> general relativity in order to prevent it from predicting that the universe
> would expand or contract.  When the evidence came that the universe was
> expanding, Einstein retracted the cosmological constant - calling it the
> worst error he had ever made (to introduce an idea merely to support his
> own preconceived beliefs).

I don't think this abbreviated history is correct.
The "steady-state" theory postdates Einstein's cosmological constant
by several decades.  Einstein preferred a static isotropic cosmology
and thought he could only get one if there were a cosmological term.
When Friedmann was able to obtain these properties from the original
(non-cosmological-term) equations, Einstein retracted the cosmological
term.  Evidence of the expansion of the universe had nothing to do
with this, and indeed is contrary to the development that caused Einstein
to repudiate the cosmological constant.

Interestingly, the cosmological constant reappears in a pure-affine
version of the theory.  Its presence or absence cannot be tested on
the medium scale, although it would have an impact on the very large
or the very small.  Because with a cosmological constant the universe
becomes "self-gauging" (Eddington's terminology), such a theory has
some attractive aspects.  Einstein's regret at warping a theory to
fit preconceived notions should not prevent investigation of such
theories when they arise naturally.

gwyn@brl-tgr.ARPA (Doug Gwyn <gwyn>) (01/30/85)

Thanks to Ethan for a good summary of the history of the cosmological term.

> Actually, within standard GR there appears no theoretical reason to discard L
> except those of simplicity.  It may very well be demanded in any case from
> particle physics (although the only 'natural' values are experimentally absurd).

Indeed, the deSitter solution is a highly symmetric one and apparently the
"natural" background space-time when a cosmological term is present.  There
is some relation (not fully known to me) with the "deSitter group", which I
recall was of some interest several years ago in elementary particle theory.

I think the point is sufficiently important that I will repeat it and
elaborate a bit:

	When one produces a unified field theory along the lines of
	the classical development of General Relativity but with
	various symmetry constraints removed, if only ONE field is
	taken as fundamental it has to be the "affine" connection and
	not the metric tensor.  (There are actually several similar
	connections but they're all related.)  Schr"odinger investigated
	such theories in the late 1940s and found that the "pure affine"
	theory produced from a particular variational principle could be
	formulated to look just like Einstein's equation but WITH a
	"cosmological term" automatically appearing.  In my Master's
	thesis I investigated alternative integrands for the variation
	and determined that they all produced either identical results
	or a symmetry-restricted subset (or, in many cases the integral
	variation vanished identically).  The conclusion is that any
	generalization of general relativity along "classical" lines
	based on the affinity as the sole fundamental structure field
	will yield field equations identical in structure to those of
	the Einstein-Straus theory (under a particular choice of gauge)
	and to those of the Einstein-Kaufman reformulation (except for
	an additional term in the Bianchi identity), if the cosmological
	constant is set equal to zero.  The interesting point is that in
	such a theory the cosmological constant arises in such a way
	that it CANNOT be precisely zero; indeed, its numerical value
	may be set to any positive real value by appropriate choice of
	units.  This shows that the constant is an intrinsic measurement
	of SOMETHING in the local space-time structure, and since it is
	a constant therefore of the whole cosmology.  (It is like an
	inverse square of the "size of the universe".)  One of the nice
	features of the pure affine field theory is that the scaling
	argument of C. P. Johnson, Jr. against the E-S-K theories does
	not apply to the pure affine field laws.

jlg@lanl.ARPA (01/31/85)

After using several hours of Cray time on this problem I have some bad news
for some of you on the net.  We have predicted the entire state of the
universe for the next five years.  Two submitters to the net will get
diverced, one will meet a tall dark stranger, exactly four will have
trouble with a lock during the next week, and in a surprisingly rare event
one of you will be struck down by a meteor!

There are other predictions, I don't think we should panic too many people at
this time.

I would like to thank the little green men from Alpha Centauri for their
assistance in setting up the initial conditions for this model.

J. Giles

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