[net.physics] real physics vs junk

rokhsar@lasspvax.UUCP (Dan Rokhsar) (07/22/85)

When I subscribed to net.physics, I had hoped for interesting discussions
by people active in physics (like net.math, which is almost always interesting).Instead of physically literate net users, the contributors to net.physics
seem to be (for the most part) confused pseudo-scientists whose knowledge of
the subject appears to be derived from the back of cereal boxes and who are
compelled to post their latest fantasies concerning the physical world.
By now I'm afraid that most serious users have written off net.physics
as a total loss, but occasionally there are interesting articles about more
mundane topics, like the melting of ice and the origin of lightning;    
these are swamped by the latest ravings of lunatics on hidden variables and
quantum reality, or some such nonsense.  This is not to say that these
are not important questions, but the articles all come from people who have 
obviously not derived Bell's theorem or even looked at the original papers; 
they are mouthing off about their own misinterpretations of articles written
for nonscientists that are often inaccurate or confusing in their own right.

 
How about a net.REAL.physics for people who are not interested in
unintelligible (or worse, intelligible and stupid) ramblings concerning
esoteric pseudo subjects like the latest series on the ether.
Unfortunately, (or fortunately, depending on your point of view!), relativity
and quantum mechanics are topics of great importance and should not be banned
from the proposed "net.real.physics", but as it stands it is almost never
worth reading any entry with these words in the title.  When I came back to 
the net after this weekend, there were nearly 50 pieces of junk, and I had to
skip the whole bunch, which makes me wonder whether or not I was missing 
anything actually interesting concerning "boring" subjects like solid state
physics.  Net.music was able to purge the grateful dead groupies by exiling
them to their own newsgroup, and they seem perfectly happy to exchange 
with themselves; perhaps the few serious physicists could band together and
form their own newsgroup with a less inviting title than net.physics, and
the nuts can babble among themselves until the universe again collapses into
a black hole (but black holes have no hair!  Does this mean we can have
tachyons after a black hole collapses?  Oh, goody, we can exchange faster
than light signals to our hearts content, but what ramifications will this
have for the ether?  And will there be quanta of ether-matter obeying
a new quantum general relativity which will be invented by one of our own
net users!  Tune in next week....)

If anyone else feels this way, write to the net or to me:


lasspvax!rokhsar			Dan Rokhsar

steve@kontron.UUCP (Steve McIntosh) (07/26/85)

> Instead of physically literate net users, the contributors to net.physics
> seem to be (for the most part) confused pseudo-scientists whose knowledge of
> the subject appears to be derived from the back of cereal boxes and who are
> compelled to post their latest fantasies concerning the physical world.
> ...
> lasspvax!rokhsar			Dan Rokhsar

Dan - I get the impression that most of the people on the net are COMPUTER
PEOPLE (Engineers, Programmers, Managers etc.) and NOT scientists. (Me
included.) The number of Physicists on the net is probably very small
compared to the number of non-physicists.

Those who are involved in REAL physics have their own esoteric channels
of communication - journals, conferences and such. That the typical 
net user doesnt have the time or ability to access.

Many of these users at one time or the other have been interested in
physics, and have a craving to understand where physics is going, and
are not afraid to speculate about it.

I would suggest that net.physics be split into three groups:

1) net.physics would remain for general use. I would suggest that REAL
   physics people avoid it, unless they are kind enough to participate
   in speculation or whatever with non-physics people. It would be a
   real trial for some physics people to be patient and polite to the
   rest of us. Nobody likes to be insulted.

2) net.physics.expert so that us peons could ask (hopefully) articulate
   questions of those who may have the answers. And perhaps get replies
   other than "thats a stupid question".

3) mod.physics for the REAL physics people - complete with referees and
   all those things that make journals respectible. Here is the place 
   for the discussions that are the meat of REAL physics. Non physics
   people really do enjoy reading such things.

The popularity of net.physics (as based on the amount of net traffic
it generates) is, it seems, based on the interest in the subject of those
who want to know and learn more. Not because it is an electronic journal.

(Afterthought - how about a fourth category - net.physics.news for "hot"
news items. After all, most of us don't have a direct line to the field.)

- Steve McIntosh, Kontron Electronics, Irvine CA -

/Usual disclaimers/