pmk@prometheus.UUCP (Paul M Koloc) (08/08/85)
> Real issues?? I like discussions about mental telepathy, > .. ... . Paul M. Koloc What I said was: I like discussions about mental telepathy, ##- IF -## they would suggest some sort of basis in physics (a model) that could explain it. > Take for example the laser. > | Paul M. Koloc, President: (301) 445-1075 | FUSION | > > Really! What has laser to do with telepathy?? As I recall, it was > developed from maser by conventional methods and theories - > QM and Quantum Theory of Light. I used the wrong term, I should have said "precognition". The point I was trying to make was that a long, very long time after the theoretical basis for the invention of the laser was established, was it actually invented. The laser is a distinctly separate invention from the maser), demonstrated first by Ted Maiman in 1960, and patented by Gould. HOWEVER, it was ENVISIONED (is precognition that different from telepathy???) long before it was invented. Take Flash Gordon movies and their use of the laser-like "death ray!". ANOTHER example of general precognition (telepathy with the future?) would be the Dick Tracy wrist televideo "watch". We may not be there quite yet but I'll bet sketches of one is in a CAD file someplace. When the latter was "envisioned in the DT comics" the technology or science wasn't ready to generate one. But who cares if the actual invention was finally developed after consulting the QM books or was generated serendipitously by some tinkering "fool" working in his garage, the point I'm making is that the "vision" came whether the science or technology was ready or not and in a number of cases has proven to be long before the invention was demonstrated. Now, let's think up or dream up a real physics mechanism that can explain it. LUCKY GUESS YOU SAY!!. Supremely wonderfully accurate guesses by "writers?". Nor will talking about this or that incident of non-repeatable "real telepathy" won't help get us to the point where it can be used (telepathy, psycho kinesis, precognition) as a reliable tool. It certainly seems to me it MIGHT be a real thing and that it could be very important to our welfare, but how could such a thing work. Just for the record, I think chasing Super-Symmetries is at least as nuts, and at best it will have very limited application to the simplification and refinement of physics. On the other hand, let's come up with some interesting hypotheses to explain this "psychic" stuff, or find another place to discuss it. > There are no 'non-physical forces' Tell me, please, what was the "physical force that caused the big bang". Or are you just hoping life (physics) is that simple. Peter and Paul! - - NOTE: MAIL PATH MAY DIFFER FROM HEADER - - +-------------------------------------------------------+--------+ | Paul M. Koloc, President: (301) 445-1075 | FUSION | | Prometheus II Ltd., College Park, MD 20740-0222 | this | | pmk@prometheus.UUCP; ..seismo!prometheus!pmk.UUCP | decade | +-------------------------------------------------------+--------+
mikes@AMES-NAS.ARPA (08/13/85)
From: mikes@AMES-NAS.ARPA (Peter Mikes)
Paul Koloc:(Talking about laser, tele-watch etc)..:
the point I'm making is that the "vision" came
whether the science or technology was ready or not and in a number of
cases has proven to be long before the invention was demonstrated.
Now, let's think up or dream up a real physics mechanism that can
explain it. LUCKY GUESS YOU SAY!!....
Rather than " (telepathy, psycho kinesis, precognition) "
Reply: Of course not. I DO NOT SAY " LUCKY GUESS " (implying chance). Just
about any invention, from airplane to typewriter was first envisioned,
than tried without succes and finally invented. It does not provide
any evidence for above ( by which I suppose you mean transfer of informa- tion from an absolute future (of the light cone) into the past). It
just so happens that people have similar dreams and models of universe
and so come to similar visions and ideas. Often the real inventor is
building on the past visions. Before you offer esoteric ex-
planations, you should dispose of the conventional ones.
Paul Koloc:
Just for the record, I think chasing Super-Symmetries is at least as nuts,
and at best it will have very limited application to the simplification and
refinement of physics. On the other hand, let's come up with some interesting
hypotheses to explain this "psychic" stuff, or find another place to discuss
it.
Reply: I tend to agree with you there. Becouse I agree that concepts of 'con-
sciousness' and 'information' are of great interest to (future) phy-
sics I believe that we should use them carefully and dig our their
real meaning and relevance. Using them out of conventional context
without offering (at least informal) new definitions and ignoring the
similar courtesies of learned discourse and logic betrays an intelectual
arrogance, which one suspects, the perpetrators mistake for brilliance.
Peter M.:> There are no 'non-physical forces'
Tell me, please, what was the "physical force that caused the big bang".
Reply: I will answer this simple question in the next posting.
Peterfranka@mmintl.UUCP (Frank Adams) (08/13/85)
In article <161@prometheus.UUCP> pmk@prometheus.UUCP (Paul M Koloc) writes: > HOWEVER, [the laser] was ENVISIONED long before it was invented. >Take Flash Gordon movies and their use of the laser-like "death ray!". It is easy to imagine a death ray. The idea has undoubtably occurred independently to many people. There are many possible inventions which could match this idea: lasers, particle beams, flamethrowers, etc. This is about as much of a coincidence as the fact that you and my uncle are both named Paul. >ANOTHER example of general precognition (telepathy with the future?) >would be the Dick Tracy wrist televideo "watch". This is even less of a coincidence. All you need to know to predict the two-way wrist television is that eventually, electronic components will get small enough to build one. This was not obvious at the time, but it was certainly plausible. As I remember it, Dick Tracy also had vehicles shaped like flying saucers, which were used to visit the moon, where the dwellers were humanoids with antennae.
bill@utastro.UUCP (William H. Jefferys) (08/14/85)
> In article <161@prometheus.UUCP> pmk@prometheus.UUCP (Paul M Koloc) writes: > > HOWEVER, [the laser] was ENVISIONED long before it was invented. > >Take Flash Gordon movies and their use of the laser-like "death ray!". > > It is easy to imagine a death ray. The idea has undoubtably occurred > independently to many people. There are many possible inventions which > could match this idea: lasers, particle beams, flamethrowers, etc. > This is about as much of a coincidence as the fact that you and my > uncle are both named Paul. I believe that Archimedes is supposed to have used a sort of "death ray" on enemy ships (a line of defenders with mirrors was alleged to have focussed sunlight on invading ships, setting them afire). It may not have been Archimedes, and I believe there is question about whether it really happened, but the idea is certainly very old. -- "Men never do evil so cheerfully and so completely as when they do so from religious conviction." -- Blaise Pascal Bill Jefferys 8-% Astronomy Dept, University of Texas, Austin TX 78712 (USnail) {allegra,ihnp4}!{ut-sally,noao}!utastro!bill (uucp) bill%utastro.UTEXAS@ut-sally.ARPA (ARPANET)
dgary@ecsvax.UUCP (D Gary Grady) (08/16/85)
> I believe that Archimedes is supposed to have used a sort of "death > ray" on enemy ships (a line of defenders with mirrors was alleged to > have focussed sunlight on invading ships, setting them afire). > It may not have been Archimedes, and I believe there is question about > whether it really happened, but the idea is certainly very old. > > Bill Jefferys 8-% Archimedes it was, striving to defend Syracuse. In 1974 or so an experiment was carried out by somebody (this is from my recollection of newspaper accounts at the time so don't expect accurate details!) and a team of mirror-holders were able to ignite a target carried on some vessel (a rowboat?). So it's conceivable the legend is true. By the way, the legend concludes that the invaders returned on a cloudy day (sneaky SOBs). A soldier found Archimedes sketching geometrical designs in the dirt. Archimedes said, "Don't mess up my figures." Those were his last words. -- D Gary Grady Duke U Comp Center, Durham, NC 27706 (919) 684-3695 USENET: {seismo,decvax,ihnp4,akgua,etc.}!mcnc!ecsvax!dgary