chuckb@fluke.UUCP (Chuck Bowden) (04/10/85)
I am seeking advice for aging red wine properly, and I am wondering if
anyone has heard anything in particular about '82 red Bordeaux.
I read somewhere (I wish I remember where) that 1982 was the best year for
red Bordeaux since one year in the late 40's. The article also said that
'82 red Bordeaux wines that are currently selling for around $13.00 will
sell for twice that price as early as July because of the quality of the '82
grapes from Bordeaux and the demand for this vintage.
Has anyone else heard good things about 82 Bordeaux?
I took the bait and bought some bottles of Ginestet '82 and Mouton-Cadet '82
and plan to cellar them. These wines were not expensive ($5.50/$6.50 ea.)
but I am hoping that in ten years or so, I'll have something good.
Is there another red Bordeaux that someone would recommend?
I live in an apartment, so there is no basement for cellaring wine, so I am
not sure whre to put the bottles. I understand that wine ages faster at
higher temperatures, but I know that light and high heat are to be avoided.
Some questions I have are:
How many years should I age the wine, and at what temperature?
What maximum temperature fluctuation should be observed?
What does higher-than-normal-wine-cellar temperature do to the wine?
I have not read net.wines before, so pardon me if I have covered old topics.
Thanks in advance for any response!
Chuck Bowden
John Fluke Manufacturing Co., Inc.
{uw-beaver,microsof,sun,allegra,ssc-vax} !fluke!chuckbsteveg@gitpyr.UUCP (Steve Gilbreath) (04/16/85)
[Reply to the addresses given in the signature... PNW, wan@gacsr] > I am seeking advice for aging red wine properly, and I am wondering if > anyone has heard anything in particular about '82 red Bordeaux. > > I read somewhere (I wish I remember where) that 1982 was the best year for > red Bordeaux since one year in the late 40's. The article also said that > '82 red Bordeaux wines that are currently selling for around $13.00 will > sell for twice that price as early as July because of the quality of the '82 > grapes from Bordeaux and the demand for this vintage. > > Has anyone else heard good things about 82 Bordeaux? > > I took the bait and bought some bottles of Ginestet '82 and Mouton-Cadet '82 > and plan to cellar them. These wines were not expensive ($5.50/$6.50 ea.) > but I am hoping that in ten years or so, I'll have something good. > > Is there another red Bordeaux that someone would recommend? > > I live in an apartment, so there is no basement for cellaring wine, so I am > not sure whre to put the bottles. I understand that wine ages faster at > higher temperatures, but I know that light and high heat are to be avoided. > Some questions I have are: > > How many years should I age the wine, and at what temperature? > > What maximum temperature fluctuation should be observed? > > What does higher-than-normal-wine-cellar temperature do to the wine? > > I have not read net.wines before, so pardon me if I have covered old topics. > Thanks in advance for any response! > > > Chuck Bowden > John Fluke Manufacturing Co., Inc. > > {uw-beaver,microsof,sun,allegra,ssc-vax} !fluke!chuckb Yes, the 1982 Bordeaux vintage is supposed to be one of the best. However, I hope you haven't invested too much in Ginestet and Mouton-Cadet. To "cellar" a wine means to store for some period of time a wine which has the potential of becoming a "great wine". About the only potential Mouton-Cadet has is becoming vinegar. Ginestet and Mouton-Cadet are "bulk" wines. They're massed produced table wines which can be offered in a large number of restaurants at a somewhat reasonable price. Big volume is the name of the game for these wines as they tend to turn a quick profit for both the wine producer as well as the restaurant. Bulk wines have no potential of becoming anything more than average. They're made to drink now and storing them for 10 years isn't going to make them any better. In fact, if you did store them for 10 years or so they would have the same taste they have now, assuming they didn't go bad, and would be worth no more than you payed for them today, if not less. I've had bottles of both Ginestet and Mouton-Cadet. The Ginestet was ok as a general table wine. As for the Mouton-Cadet I must say that it has to be one of the worst, if not the worst, wines I've ever had. Mouton-Cadet is produced by Baron Philippe de Rothschild of the Rothschild family whos greater works include Lafite-Rothschild and Mouton-Rothschild. Personally, I find it very hard to believe the Baron would put his name on the stuff. It must be a typo. If you're really interested in cellaring some wines which have some potential you're going to have to spend a little money. Not a lot, but about $15 - $20 dollars per bottle. Wine follows that golden rule - You get what you pay for. Anyway, here are some suggestions you might look at: Ch. Beychevelle about $16 Ch. Figeac about $25 Ch. Les Forts de Latour about $15 Little brother of Ch. Latour Ch. Gloria about $15 Very good buy Ch. Lascombes about $20 My personal favorite Ch. Montrose about $20 Needs long ageing Ch. Palmer about $25 Ch. Petrus about $25 I've tried to keep the suggestions within the $15 - $25 range. These are the prices I seen these wines at, however prices may vary several dollars. There are many others that you might look at as well. Just remember a cheap wine is just that - a cheap wine. I didn't include any high price wines on the list however you might want to have one for a special events 10 or 20 years down the road. Look at a first growth such as Lafite-Rothschild, Mouton-Rothschild, Margaux, Haut-Brion, and Latour. These wines usally start around $40 and work there way up. These are the wines you really want to cellar and they will increase in value. Example: I purchased a Lafite-Rothschild two years ago for $54 dollars. Today it is worth over $150. I also got a Mouton-Rothschild last year for $32 dollars. It now sells for $90. I too live in an apartment and was faced with the same problem you have. I discussed the problem with a friend of mine who just happens to be a wine expert and the person who got me started at this. The solution was to place my wine rack in a closet. It is dark and the temperature doesn't change very much. Make sure the closet is not near anything that will produce heat or cold such as a heater. Light should be avoided and the closet works quite well. And while it is important for the wine to be at a proper temperature, it is more important for the wine to be at a somewhat stable temperature. Wine cellars usally stay around 55 - 60 degrees. This is the temperature the wine works best at but most important, the wine cellar is a stable environment. If you keep your apartment temperature around room temperature all year round, and it can even get a little warmer in the summer, say around 76 or so, then your wines will be just fine. Never let your wines get colder than about 50 and never hotter than about 80. Just try to keep them in a stable environment. As for how long to age the wine, that question has a different answer for each wine as well as each year of the wine. Wines too young will taste wild and strong while wines too old will taste dull and worn out. Consult your local wineshop about suggested ageing. I hope I haven't bored you or scared you off from wines. It's really quite fun once you start. And it's very fun to pull an old dusty bottle out and say "This bottle is worth $100 dollars." Remember, tell them what it's worth, not what you paid. -- Steven M. Gilbreath. Office of Computing Services. User Services. Georgia Institute of Technology. Atlanta GA 30332. (404) 894-6168 ...!{akgua, allegra, amd, hplabs, ihnp4, masscomp, ut-ngp}!gatech!gitpyr!steveg Real computers have 60 bit words.
alan@mtxinu.UUCP (Alan Tobey) (04/18/85)
> I am seeking advice for aging red wine properly, and I am wondering if > anyone has heard anything in particular about '82 red Bordeaux. > > I read somewhere (I wish I remember where) that 1982 was the best year for > red Bordeaux since one year in the late 40's. The article also said that > '82 red Bordeaux wines that are currently selling for around $13.00 will > sell for twice that price as early as July because of the quality of the '82 > grapes from Bordeaux and the demand for this vintage. I've tasted about 40 different 82 Bordeaux in various blind tastings and over all districts and traditional quality levels, and I'm so far very unimpressed. The reason this vintage is getting so much press is that the grapes reached extreme -- almost unprecedented -- levels of ripeness in '82. This means that alcohol levels are exceptionally high for Bordeaux -- often reaching 13.5 or 14% without addition of sugar to the must, where a "normal" year would produce wines of 11.5-12% after sugar addition. Correspondingly, acid levels are lower than normal -- acidity declines with ripeness. What do they taste like? If you like California Cabernet, you'll probably like some of the '82 Bordeaux -- very ripe, fat grape flavors that sometimes verge on the raisiny, sometimes "hot" from obvious alcohol, often rather flabby from lower acid levels, only medium tannin. Why are they popular? Merchants of Bordeaux are among the world's best at hyping their product, and "vintage of the [insert your favorite long time period]" talk is never far from their lips. Wines that are dramatic (or, in my opinion, melodramatic) appeal to people in an immediate way, put out a lot up front, and don't take a lot of experience to place in context or enjoy. Yes, they may appreciate in value -- but look for a lot of "distress" sales of overstocked 82's once the pipeline fills up and the Bordelaise start hyping the allegedly excellent 83s ("the best vintage since 82 at least!"). Are there good ones? Yes, of course. In my opinion the best regions in 82 were St-Emilion and Pomerol -- better than the more well-known Medoc areas (St-Estephe, Pauillac, St-Julien, Margaux). This derives mostly from grape differences: St-Em & Pomerol favor Merlot and Cabernet Franc, the Medoc favors Cabernet Sauvignon. The Sauvignons exaggerate the tendencies toward raisiness and flabby, jammy flavors; while the Cab Franc and especially the Merlot were more optimally ripe and generally less overripe at harvest. Every Pomerol I've tasted has been at least interesting and lively -- and the rare and expensive La Conseillante unbelieveably fine. St-Em's are more mixed, with wines from the western part of the region (Ch. Canon and neighbors) better than those near the town. Personally, I'm not buying ANY 82 Medocs to lay down. Will they improve? The genuinely great ones will; but the big, dramatic, low-acid ones will do what California Cabernets of the same style do: tend to fall apart into dull, flat boring bottles after a few years. California is learning that acidity carries fruit through the aging period; buyers of 82 Bordeaux will learn that early drama is no guarantee of later quality. What to buy? 79s and 80s are better (in the sense of "more classic") and are becoming very drinkable. 81s are generally very interesting, with fine, somewhat restrained fruit and just the right tannic backbone to improve through the decade. 83s are reputed to be big, hard austere wines with lots of depth and will certainly require extended aging; in some sense they're the mirror image of 82s, tough to enjoy or appreciate now but promising rewards for the patient. In Vino Hyperbole, Alan Tobey Mt Xinu, Berkeley ucbvax!mtxinu!alan