cmpbsdb@gitpyr.UUCP (Don Barry) (12/21/85)
Why these delusions with California wines? The simple matter is that
California is too fertile, too wet, and too hot to produce wines of
complexity and character. The result of loamy soil and a greenhouse
climate is similar to that of Italian produce - heavy, bulky, bulging,
and bulbous.
Everyone knows that for the poised distinction and classical elegance
of a great wine, the roots must painfully search through 20 feet or more
of chalky and gravelly soil to find their nourishment. And in the process,
a bond with nature is formed as the grapes receive an infusion and distillation
of the land. California wines taste of Bacchus - baked grape pie.
Somewhat drier conditions stunt the grapes and concentrate the soil essence
in the fruit, and natural (*not* cold fermentation, as in California wines)
produces a delightful, living beverage. A well fermented wine emerges from
the bottle as a sprite - a little granite, a pinch of tannin, and little else.
Soon the acid rushes forth and unites with the tannin and earthy essences
for a minuet, and then poise comes to the floor - the wine matures, and then
slowly senesces. A cold vatted wine emerges as tasty Kool-aid, never to
grow past adolescence.
Put away your Sonomas, your Cabernets and (harumph) Burgundys. Lay down
a few cases of '81 Palmer, or your favorite year of La Tache or Lafite. and
wait.......just wait.....
--
Don Barry (Chemistry Dept) CSnet: cmpbsdb%gitpyr.GTNET@gatech.CSNET
Georgia Institute of Technology BITNET: CMPBSDB @ GITVM1
Atlanta, GA 30332 ARPA: cmpbsdb%gitpyr.GTNET%gatech.CSNET@csnet-relay.ARPA
UUCP: ...!{akgua,allegra,amd,hplabs,ihnp4,seismo,ut-ngp}!gatech!gitpyr!cmpbsdbjane@ames.UUCP (Jane Medefesser) (12/23/85)
> Why these delusions with California wines? The simple matter is that > California is too fertile, too wet, and too hot to produce wines of > complexity and character. The result of loamy soil and a greenhouse > climate is similar to that of Italian produce - heavy, bulky, bulging, > and bulbous. How do you know, have you ever been to California, or did you read this in some "All You Want To Know About Winemaking" book? I grew up in California. The wine region can be PLENTY dry and VERY cool. Besides that, not all California wines come from Napa-Sonoma-Mendocino counties. There's Monterey, Santa Clara County, Southern Cal....... > Everyone knows that for the poised distinction and classical elegance > of a great wine, the roots must painfully search through 20 feet or more > of chalky and gravelly soil to find their nourishment. And in the process, > a bond with nature is formed as the grapes receive an infusion and distillation of the land. Umm, at the risk of flaunting my ignorance, *I* didn't know that (WOW, guess I'mm not an expert. Gee.... > Put away your Sonomas, your Cabernets and (harumph) Burgundys. Lay down > a few cases of '81 Palmer, or your favorite year of La Tache or Lafite. and > wait.......just wait..... No thanks, I'll continue to drink what I like, and that may or may not include what you recommend ( I mean, heck, steak is THE BEST, but I'll eat a good hamburger ANY DAY ) (Don, I THINK maybe you had tounge-in-cheek when you wrote this, but I still couldn't resist.) ** Send spelling & grammar flames to /dev/null, I've had a rough week (sigh) ** -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- This could not POSSIBLY be the opinion of my employer, I do not think they even KNOW I have an account on this system. Jane Medefesser {..dual,riacs,hplabs,ihnp4}!ames!jane jane@ames-nas.arpa
tim@unisoft.UUCP (Tim Bessie) (12/24/85)
In article <1204@gitpyr.UUCP> cmpbsdb@gitpyr.UUCP (Don Barry) writes: >Why these delusions with California wines? The simple matter is that >California is too fertile, too wet, and too hot to produce wines of >complexity and character. The result of loamy soil and a greenhouse >climate is similar to that of Italian produce - heavy, bulky, bulging, >and bulbous. Oh no! Here it comes! Its... its... ATTACK OF THE KILLER WINE!!! It was HEAVY! It was BULKY! It was BULGING and BULLLLLBOUS! And it wouldn't stop until it had claimed the earth for its own! Some people take wine to seriously. If that's not a joke, here's one: A man from Saudi Arabia was visiting America. One of the first things he did was to visit an American amusement park. Once there, he immediately jumped on the merry-go-round. Unfortunately, he was not used to it, and fell off in a swoon. Unbeknownst to him, a pack of 3 killer sheep was nearby, and he was promptly eaten up by the 2nd of them. A passerby was heard to comment: "Middle lamb, you've had a dizzy Bey." --- "Something very much like nothing anyone had seen before came trotting down the stairs and crossed the room." - The 13 Clocks --------------------------------------------------------------- ---> Tim Bessie ----- {ucbvax,dual}!unisoft!tim ---> Unisoft Systems; 739 Allston Way; Berkeley, CA 94710 ---> (415) 644-1230 TWX II 910 366-2145
spp@ucbvax.BERKELEY.EDU (Stephen P Pope) (01/03/86)
Give me a break. Sure, the wines of California do not come up to
the standards of Burgundy or Bordeaux, if only because those
standards were created to judge the styles of Burgundies and
Bordeaux! Why not broaden your perspective just a teensie bit
and admit that a fine California Cabernet -- say a Heitz,
Stag's Leap, Ridge, Beaulieue, or Robert Mondavi -- is in fact
the equal of many a good classed-growth claret. Sure you might
not find the equivalent of a La Tache or a Lafite, but you
will if you explore California wines find experiences just as
satisfying.
It is only over the last four or five years, with the very
strong dollar, that European wines became at all competetive
with Californians for the middle price range. Even now, you
can hardly call a lot of Burgundies or Bordeaux bargains at
$20 to $80 a bottle for the well-known ones.
You would have to be constantly drinking very pricey wines
to avoid Californians entirely and still be spending your money
effectively, on a value-per-money basis.
And on what authority do you claim the 81 Palmer
will age into a stunning wine? Did you taste the
61 palmer when it was 5 years old?
steve pope (...ucbvax!spp)cmpbsdb@gitpyr.UUCP (Don Barry) (01/04/86)
Stephen P Pope writes: > It is only over the last four or five years, with the very > strong dollar, that European wines became at all competetive > with Californians for the middle price range. Even now, you > can hardly call a lot of Burgundies or Bordeaux bargains at > $20 to $80 a bottle for the well-known ones. If we're talking about oenology as an art form, as I am, then the price is irrelevant to the quality of the wine. A masterpiece is priceless. For table wines, we may worry about price. For celebration of the grape, such mundane considerations do nothing but detract from the art. > And on what authority do you claim the 81 Palmer > will age into a stunning wine? Did you taste the > 61 palmer when it was 5 years old? I did not have the '61 Palmer in its youth, but a friend still has 14 bottles of it in his cellar. The '81 is evolving in the identical manner. The '61 vintage did not gain its exceptional luster until about '66. The '81 vintage may not have the same charisma in all the wines, but the Palmer will rise, I believe, above the first growths as it did in '61 to be memorable. I'll consider your suggestions.. I'm sure I'll consider a western "varietal" next time I'm gurgling a '61 Richebourg. Naahh. -- Don Barry (Chemistry Dept) CSnet: cmpbsdb%gitpyr.GTNET@gatech.CSNET Georgia Institute of Technology BITNET: CMPBSDB @ GITVM1 Atlanta, GA 30332 ARPA: cmpbsdb%gitpyr.GTNET%gatech.CSNET@csnet-relay.ARPA UUCP: ...!{akgua,allegra,amd,hplabs,ihnp4,seismo,ut-ngp}!gatech!gitpyr!cmpbsdb
reid@glacier.ARPA (Brian Reid) (01/06/86)
Like Switzerland, California keeps most of its best wines for itself. We ship to Georgia those wines that we don't want to drink. -- Brian Reid decwrl!glacier!reid Stanford reid@SU-Glacier.ARPA
spp@ucbvax.BERKELEY.EDU (Stephen P Pope) (01/06/86)
> If we're talking about oenology as an art form, as I am, then the > price is irrelevant to the quality of the wine. A masterpiece is > priceless. For table wines, we may worry about price. For celebration > of the grape, such mundane considerations do nothing but detract from the art. > Don Barry For most wine drinkers price is extremely relevant, but let's pretend it isn't just for the sake of discussion. The other day I pulled out one of my remaining bottles of 77 Stag's Leap Vineyards Cabernet. This wine is a true masterpiece. No, it will not last for decades; the best California Cabs peak at about age ten. No, it is not a Palmer from a good year. But it is priceless, in my opinion (and the opinion of quite a few others). I fail to see what you gain, Don, by categorically rejecting an entire important category of wine. You are really missing out by not exploring the Californians, so busy are you pulling the corks of your Richebourgs and Palmers. I know of no authorities on the subject who share your totally negative view on California wines. Sure is sad to see someone like you, Don, with an obvious love of wine, and the resources to fully appreciate this precious art, miss out because of a silly prejudice. Appreciation of wine is an acquired taste, and you will never be able to fully appreciate California wines unless you approach them with a more objective attitude. For the record, I probably these days only expend about ten percent of my wine budget on California wines. steve
c-hunt@tesla.UUCP (Charles Hunt) (01/14/86)
It is nice to see a touch of "controversy" in this normally placid group!
I agree with Steve that making sweeping generalizations about California
wines is rather closed minded. I enjoy wines for the sensory experience
more than for the appreciation of breed (a large consideration with cru
classe French bottlings), but I understand the other side: had I been blessed
with the opportunity to join M. Broadbent in the recent (much-heralded)
sampling of Th.Jefferson's 1787 Chateau d'Yquem, I doubt I could have
commented "Ho-hum. Fruit's gone, brown, lost its appeal, and only a faint
bouquet... this should have been drunk years ago!", which from a completely
objective sensory evaluation may have been appropriate (from all reports).
Considering what was in hand, I'm sure I would have chimed in with Mr.
Broadbent: "Ah! Faint! Delicate! A gentle charm! What a tribute to the
Chateau, and to the vintage!"... Get my drift? I can let the man grovel
to his '61 Palmer; after all, he's got to get SOMETHING for his $150/bottle,
considering that truly spectacular tasting wines can be bought for an
order of magnitude less! For that matter, even numerous '81 Bordeaux at
half Palmer's premium price will show as well in 20 years (Talbot, L.Bages,
La Lagune, Branaire, G. Larose, Cantemerle, etc.,etc...): it was, after all,
a great vintage. But Palmer does have BREED. Worth something, eh?
On the other side of the coin, high quality wines with unique character,
bouquet, body, color, taste, and finish are made the world over, often at a
very modest price, and often with enormous staying power (what about Taurasi,
or Barbi's Brunello, or Hardy's Shiraz, Jaboulet's Cote Rotie, Concannon's
Petit Sirah, Montevina's Reserve Zin, Torre's Gran Corona's Reserve???) These
weren't served to Louis XIV in silver spoonfuls (ala Romanee-Conti), I'll
grant you, but in vintage years they have made glorious wines in every
hedonistic respect. Interestingly, most of the recognized connoisseurs that
write have not ignored them. That says something in itself.
By example, I enjoyed a '62 Vouvray (no joke!) found, forgotten, in a friend's
cellar recently. It was past-prime, I'm sure, but none-the-less a very
enjoyable bottle with enormous complexity. I'm sure that, at release, it cost
less than a buck.
=Charles E. Hunt=