jaw7509@ritcv.UUCP (John White) (10/15/86)
Sorry if this has been brought up before, but I'm new to
net.wines. My question: does the depth of the indentation (dish?)
on the bottom of a bottle of wine have anything to do with the
quality of the wine therein?
I have a friend who sez this, but I'm pretty sure it's
B.S. (I mean after all, what are they gonna have, a wine dish depth
meter? And a council they busts you if you use the wrong depth? :-) )
If anyone knows (and I knows there's one of you) about
this, and can back me up or explain the subtleties (sp?) of this
dish depth dilema, it would be apreciated.
Thanks in advance,
-Whitey Johnson.rotondo@ernie.Berkeley.EDU (Scott Rotondo) (10/16/86)
In article <93@ritcv.UUCP> jaw7509@ritcv.UUCP (John White) writes: > > Sorry if this has been brought up before, but I'm new to > net.wines. My question: does the depth of the indentation (dish?) > on the bottom of a bottle of wine have anything to do with the > quality of the wine therein? > I have a friend who sez this, but I'm pretty sure it's > B.S. (I mean after all, what are they gonna have, a wine dish depth > meter? And a council they busts you if you use the wrong depth? :-) ) > If anyone knows (and I knows there's one of you) about > this, and can back me up or explain the subtleties (sp?) of this > dish depth dilema, it would be apreciated. > > Thanks in advance, > -Whitey Johnson. The indentation on the bottom of the bottle (called a punt) exists to add strength to the bottle, particularly for Champagne. Some also claim that it provides a place to hold the bottle while pouring, but I see no point to this. In cases where the strength of the bottle is not an issue (ordinary wine bottles), I believe the depth is arbitrary. -- Scott
pae@Shasta.STANFORD.EDU (Peter Eichenberger) (10/16/86)
> Sorry if this has been brought up before, but I'm new to > net.wines. My question: does the depth of the indentation (dish?) > on the bottom of a bottle of wine have anything to do with the > quality of the wine therein? The depth of the indentation depends upon what the winery orders and is willing to pay for. The quality of the wine in the bottle is not able to change the shape of the bottle! The main purpose for the indentation (punt) is so that the sediment from the wine (once the bottle has been stood up prior to serving) becomes somewhat more compact and does not get quite as stirred up when pouring. One would expect, then, that the depth (or existence) of the punt would depend upon whether the wine has been filtered, and whether is is intended to be aged a long time. It appears that in reality the shape of the bottle depends on either local custom or on marketing and economic considerations.
gordon@cae780.UUCP (Brian Gordon) (10/17/86)
In article <16144@ucbvax.BERKELEY.EDU> rotondo@ernie.Berkeley.EDU.UUCP (Scott Rotondo) writes: >In article <93@ritcv.UUCP> jaw7509@ritcv.UUCP (John White) writes: >> >> Sorry if this has been brought up before, but I'm new to >> net.wines. My question: does the depth of the indentation (dish?) >> on the bottom of a bottle of wine have anything to do with the >> quality of the wine therein? >> [...] > >The indentation on the bottom of the bottle (called a punt) exists to >add strength to the bottle, particularly for Champagne. Some also claim >that it provides a place to hold the bottle while pouring, but I see >no point to this. In cases where the strength of the bottle is not an >issue (ordinary wine bottles), I believe the depth is arbitrary. Not quite arbitrary. The way it was explained to me was that it was a way of varying volume without distorting the (presumably recognizable) size/shape of the bottle itself. Given the zillions of laws covering tax on wines in various countries/states/etc., it is highly desirable to be able to package quarts, fifths, 750ml, etc. bottles for different markets. Now that all(?) wine is packed in metric containers, the need is presumably somewhat less that it used to be. FROM: Brian G. Gordon, CAE Systems Division of Tektronix, Inc. UUCP: tektronix!cae780!gordon {ihnp4, decvax!decwrl}!amdcad!cae780!gordon {hplabs, resonex, qubix, leadsv}!cae780!gordon USNAIL: 5302 Betsy Ross Drive/#58137, Santa Clara, CA 95052-8137 AT&T: (408)748-4817 [direct] (408)727-1234 [switchboard]
silber@uiucdcsp.cs.uiuc.edu (10/17/86)
In so far as I know, the depth of the bottom doesn't mean a thing. However, certain wines are traditionally bottled in certain shaped bottles. All the German wines of quality are in the same sort of bottle, but if I remember correctly, Burgandys, Bojolais, and Bordeuxes all have slightly different bottles. Also, Champaigne bottles have a deep indentation so that you can pour them elegently. You cup your hand slightly with your fingers supporting the bottle's side, and your thumb in the hollow area. Precarious as this sounds, there is no risk of dropping it, unless you are a total klutz.
gauchs@unc.UUCP (Susan E. Gauch) (10/17/86)
> Sorry if this has been brought up before, but I'm new to >net.wines. My question: does the depth of the indentation (dish?) >on the bottom of a bottle of wine have anything to do with the >quality of the wine therein? My understanding is that the punt (the indentation in the bottom of the bottle) is there to collect the sediment thrown by the wine as it ages. There may be some connection between the size of the punt, the amount of sediment thrown by the wine (due to lots of sediment, or lots of time necessary to age the wine), and the wine quality. Certainly mass produced wines that are meant to be drunk 5 minutes after you bring them home from the grocery store are unlikely to be around long enough to throw any sediment. For these wines, the punt is merely a matter of style, and serves no practical purpose (except some people pour the wine by holding the bottle by the punt). I don't know why Champagne bottles have such large punts, as they don't throw much sediment as a rule. -- Susan Gauch gauchs@unc decvax!mcnc!unc!gauchs
mie@mtunh.UUCP (Marc Epstein) (10/21/86)
In article <46@unc.unc.UUCP> gauchs@unc.UUCP (Susan E. Gauch) writes: >>My question: does the depth of the indentation (dish?) >>on the bottom of a bottle of wine have anything to do with the >>quality of the wine therein? > >My understanding is that the punt (the indentation in the bottom of the >bottle) is there to collect the sediment thrown by the wine as it ages. > ... >I don't know why Champagne bottles >have such large punts, as they don't throw much sediment as a rule. >-- >Susan Gauch >gauchs@unc decvax!mcnc!unc!gauchs I believe Champage bottles have such large indentations in the bottom so that the bottles can withstand the high pressure (eg. greater surface area ...). marc epstein ihnp4!mtunh!mie
ross@raster.UUCP (10/24/86)
I toured the Domaine Chandon winery in Napa valley this summer - yes, they are the U.S. branch of Moet Chandon. In the tour, they explained that in the early days of champagne production, the pressure of the second fermentation would burst most of the bottles. The indentation, or "punt", was created to distribute the pressure over a larger area. It usually took up most of the volume of the bottle, leaving little room for the champagne. This was necessary because the glass of the period was relatively weak. With today's superior glass making, the punt is no longer necessary, but remains for tradition - and yes, as a fancy way to pour. By the way - the Domaine Chandon "Blanc de Noirs" is excellent. Happy bubbles..... Ross Werner !decvax!raster!ross
mark@mcc-pp.UUCP (Mark Scheevel) (10/25/86)
< burp > >By the way - the Domaine Chandon "Blanc de Noirs" is excellent. > >Ross Werner I second Ross' (Ross's?) recommendation. Also, we had a bottle of Piper-Sonoma last week to celebrate our daughter's birth, and it was excellent as well. I believe Piper-Sonoma is the same sort of deal as Domaine Chandon: it is brought to you by the same people that bring you Piper-Heidsick (sp?). -- Mark Scheevel MCC, Parallel Processing Austin, Texas arpa: scheevel@mcc.com uucp: {ihnp4,seismo,ctvax}!ut-sally!im4u!milano!mcc-pp!mark
graifer@net1.UCSD.EDU (Dan Graifer) (10/30/86)
I once heard that the indentation on the bottom of a champagne bottle was to take the compressional stress when the bottle is recorked after disgorgement. The bottle is held by a (usually wooden) cone that fits into the depression. P.S. I am also very fond of D-C Blanc de Noirs. Dan Graifer graifer@net1.UCSD.EDU
iws@rayssdb.UUCP (Ihor W. Slabicky) (10/30/86)
> Sorry if this has been brought up before, but I'm new to > net.wines. My question: does the depth of the indentation (dish?) > on the bottom of a bottle of wine have anything to do with the > quality of the wine therein? It is a little know but true fact that the shape of the bottom of the wine bottle (and beer bottle) does in fact indicate the quality of the contents. As other posters have stated, some bottles have indentations in the bottom, as in champagne and cognac bottles. These are called punts, and were originally used to strengthen the glass and to permit sediment to settle to the bottom. (I save these bottles and use them for my own wines, to let the sediment settle around the punt then decant them until just before the punt is reached.) As is know, both champagne and cognac is generally a high quality drink. Other bottles which may not have a punt, still have a flat bottom. In either case, when the bottle is opened and stood up, it remains standing. There are, however, certain bottles with reverse punts or obverse punts where the indentation actually goes out of the bottom and forms a round bottom. When these obverse punt bottles are opened and stood up, the round bottom causes them to promptly tip over and spill the contents, thereby indicating the contents are not fit to drink. These reverse or obverse punts are called, yeah, they're, they're called stnups. Yeah, that's it...