jeffw@tekecs.UUCP (Jeff Winslow) (06/22/85)
>> In many occasions it is possible to pass a class without >>attending lectures. For example when the lectures follow exactly the contents >>of the assigned text book or when most of the class grade is based on a final >> programming project that does not necessitate the knowledge imparted to >> the students in the classroom. > > You seem to be confusing the notion of passing a course with learning the > material covered by the course. > > A one semester, three credit course involves about 45 hours of lecture, and > 50 to 150 additional hours of study. Do you really think a two hour exam can be > made up that adequately measures your knowledge of that much work? Do you > really think you have learned the course because you have been able to answer > 70% of the questions? You seem to be confusing a number of things. The article which you quoted says nothing about final exams. Why did you bring them up? > Do you really think that if you complete the final > programming project on which the grade is based there was nothing worth > learning in the lectures? If so, you might be in for a rude awakening when > you take a grad school course based on what you skipped, or your next job > requires you to use some of it. Then again, you might not. The lectures in several of my EE classes (at Berkeley, no less) were simply repeats of the textbook material - not too surprisingly, since the textbooks were often authored by the professor. If I had had to, I could have easily passed those classes AND learned the material with only the textbook and access to the professor for answers to occasional questions. Physics classes, on the other hand, would have been very difficult to do that way. Do you really think the answer to all your questions is no for all classes? Jeff Winslow
wjhe@hlexa.UUCP (Bill Hery) (06/24/85)
> >> In many occasions it is possible to pass a class without > >>attending lectures. > > Do you really think a two hour exam can be > > made up that adequately measures your knowledge of that much work? Do you > > really think you have learned the course because you have been able to answer > > 70% of the questions? > > You seem to be confusing a number of things. The article which you quoted says > nothing about final exams. Why did you bring them up? I assumed that by 'pass a class' he meant take the final (or midterm and final) How did you interpret it? > > Do you really think that if you complete the final > > programming project on which the grade is based there was nothing worth > > learning in the lectures? If so, you might be in for a rude awakening when > > you take a grad school course based on what you skipped, or your next job > > requires you to use some of it. > > Then again, you might not. The lectures in several of my EE classes (at > Berkeley, no less) were simply repeats of the textbook material - not > too surprisingly, since the textbooks were often authored by the professor. > If I had had to, I could have easily passed those classes AND learned the > material with only the textbook and access to the professor for answers to > occasional questions. > > Physics classes, on the other hand, would have been very difficult to do > that way. > > Do you really think the answer to all your questions is no for all classes? > Of course not. But I think a responsible student should at least find out if the course is strictly 'by the book' before deciding how to handle it. I should add that my academic experience is primarily in mathematics (not much of the 'cookbook' variety) as an undergrad, grad student, and faculty member from 1968-1974. As a student, I did follow a minimal attendance policy in those courses where I thought it appropriate (i. e., where the professor wasn't worth listening too). As a faculty member, I never took attendance (and therefore could not penalize students for not attending). I did, however, NOT teach by rote from the text (except where required to in certain courses by school policy); students were told in advance that they were responsible for all material covered in class, wheter or not it was in the text (if not, I usually handed out supplementary notes), and that participation in the classroom could be used by me too raise grades when I thought that the exam grades were not indicative of understanding. Most students did attend most classes; I found that the ones who didn't usually didn't do well on exams that required more than rote repetition of formulas, theorems and 'methods.' (I tried to test for understanding, not memorization--courses with lots of formulas would have open book tests.) Bill Hery