[net.sport.baseball] Eastern Supremacy

vernick@tesla.UUCP (Michael Vernick) (07/18/84)

A little trivia here.  On Friday the 13th of July, every Eastern division
team (13 of them) in both leagues won!!  Does anyone know if that is a
common occurence?

   Also, to the guy who thinks Gooden cannot rely on his fastball and would
turn into another Nolan Ryan.  What is wrong with that?  Ryan is an all-time
great, a definite Hall of Famer.  I particular like to watch fireballers
come right at hitters, like Gossage, Ryan, and J.R. Richard when he was able
to throw.  I think its more of a challenge to hitters.  One other thing,
Ryan and Carlton have approx. the same number of K's, but isn't it
true that Ryan has pitched ~1000 less innings than Carlton?

Mike Vernick
cornell!tesla!vernick

gregbo@hou2e.UUCP (Greg Skinner) (07/20/84)

> From: vernick@tesla.UUCP (Michael Vernick)
>   Also, to the guy who thinks Gooden cannot rely on his fastball and would
> turn into another Nolan Ryan.  What is wrong with that?  Ryan is an all-time
> great, a definite Hall of Famer.  I particular like to watch fireballers
> come right at hitters, like Gossage, Ryan, and J.R. Richard when he was able
> to throw.  I think its more of a challenge to hitters.  One other thing,
> Ryan and Carlton have approx. the same number of K's, but isn't it
> true that Ryan has pitched ~1000 less innings than Carlton?

I'm the guy who posted it.

What's wrong with that is that Dwight Gooden is in the major leagues now, and 
he has got to learn that he can't simply blow a fastball by batters for seven,
eight, nine innings every outing and not expect to get shellacked.  For one,
the National League has a lower strike zone, so a lot of his high fastballs
will be called "balls" in the National League.  Nolan Ryan was an awful pitcher
for the Mets, not primarily because the Mets were unable to give him runs but
he was very wild -- walked quite a lot of batters and lost more games than he
won.  In 1973 (I think) the year he was traded to California, he was a 20-game
winner and struck out the famous 383 batters.  Now, he's back in the NL and
isn't winning 20 games, neither is his ERA particularly good.  Secondly, 
Dwight Gooden has had control trouble in his last couple of starts.  He has
not pitched a complete game lately.  He lost his last decision after giving
up 6 walks.  Most of the time, the batters were laying off his high fastball.
Only those trying to hit the ball out of the park would swing at it.

Ralph Kiner and Tim McCarver made a good comment one night on the difference
between a talented pitcher and a pitcher who has potential.  A pitcher who
can strike men out (like Gooden) has potential.  However, it takes a pitcher
with an assortment of pitches, or at least two good pitches, to be talented.
[The following should be construed as my opinion.]  A talented pitcher
should have a good fast ball, curve and change-of-pace.  Look at your current
talented pitchers -- Valenzuela, Stieb.  They don't have to throw the fastball
to get men out always.  I haven't seen any evidence that Gooden can get men
out without striking them out -- his control of late has not indicated to
me that he can go to the curve, or an off-speed pitch, when he loses control
of his fastball.  And in the middle of the season, in the late innings, when
you've been throwing at > 90 mph, you're bound to get tired and start 
walking batters.  That's what Gooden has been doing of late.

I'm a Mets fan, but I feel I must speak out on the subject of Gooden, because
in the late season the Mets will be expecting a lot from him -- to be able to
win close ballgames when the Mets batters are stifled against an opposing
ace starter.  If he doesn't develop some better control, he won't be able
to deliver those wins in tight situations.  And that will be bad news for
the Mets.

kaufman@uiucdcs.UUCP (07/21/84)

#R:tesla:-40200:uiucdcs:12900019:000:107
uiucdcs!kaufman    Jul 21 10:47:00 1984

And when you throw in the fact that there were two twi-nighters, the East went
15 for 15 against the West!

petec@umcp-cs.UUCP (07/25/84)

I don't want to get involved in the comparison between Gooden and Ryan, because
I live and root in an American League area, and haven't seen Gooden enough
(although the All-Star game was quite an introduction). But I will say some
things in defense of Ryan.

>>Nolan Ryan was an awful pitcher
>>for the Mets, not primarily because the Mets were unable to give him runs but
>>he was very wild -- walked quite a lot of batters and lost more games than he
>>won.  In 1973 (I think) the year he was traded to California, he was a 20-game
>>winner and struck out the famous 383 batters.  Now, he's back in the NL and
>>isn't winning 20 games, neither is his ERA particularly good.  

Ryan really wasn't so good in his early years with the Mets, but I think 
part of that is a youngster facing major league hitting and learning the
difference between being a thrower and being a pitcher. He isn't winning
20 games, but he has had 3 of his best 4 years for winning percentage
(excluding 6-3, .667 record in 1969 as a part-timer) in his 4 years
in Houston, and I would take his Houston ERAs of 3.35, 1.69, 3.16, 
and 2.98 any day. That comes to about a 2.91 average, which is below
his career average of 3.10 . Also, Ryan hasn't had to win 20 games; the
Astros have often had other talented pitchers, and it wasn't necessary
to have Ryan pitch 300+ innings a year.
-- 
Call-Me:   Pete Cottrell, Univ. of Md. Comp. Sci. Dept.
UUCP:	   {seismo,allegra,brl-bmd}!umcp-cs!petec
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