dlash@ihn5l.UUCP (Dave Lash) (07/16/84)
The following situation happened in a softball game I played in last week. After talking with the umpire and checking the rulebook, I am still not sure of the ruling. ... You make the call. Runner on first and second ... two outs. The batter hits a home-run (in the alley between the outfielders) However, in his hurry to get home, the batter misses second. The opposing team appeals and the batter, is called out. The umpire rules only one run scores. I claim that since both runners scored before the out, both runs should count. (The ump maintains it is a single and the runner on first does therefore not score!) (Our captain did not protest. We lost by one run.) Whats the right call? dave lash ihnp4!ihn5l!dlash
jimph@ihuxs.UUCP (Jim Hendricks) (07/17/84)
I think you were right and both runs should score. First, the batter reached first so there was no force play involved. Then, both runs scored before the batter was called out. If the umpires reasoning is correct, no runs score because everyone would move up one base (since the batter only got a single). By the way, there are very few plays which can be protested rightfully because most plays are judgement calls. This case, however, is one that could have, and should have, been protested and maybe with a favorable outcome. (If the protest is upheld, the game is replayed from the moment of protest). Jim Hendricks ih 6r-212 x. 2302
kdq@pthya.UUCP ( Kip Quackenbush) (07/18/84)
The right call is that 2 runs score. How can a missed bag be
scored as a single.....oh oh, as I'm typing the umps ruling
is starting to make sense. Let's forget the homer. Say the
batter hits a triple, same situation. Without the rulebook
in front of me, I would have to argue that BOTH runs score.
--
Kip Quackenbush
pthya!kdq
{ihnp4,ucbvax,cbosgd,decwrl,amd70,fortune,zehntel}!dual!pthya!kdq
Pacific Bell, San Francisco, Californiaran@bentley.UUCP (R. Novo) (07/18/84)
The two runs should have scored. Although the batter is out at second, the other runners rounded the bases at their own risk and therefore should be allowed to score. The ball is not out of play until the pitcher has the ball on the mound and then throws to a certain base to make an appeal play. This differs from a grounds rule hit, where the ball is declared dead (i.e. it leaves the field of play, or it is touched by a fan, etc.) Bob Novo Bell Laboratories Piscataway, NJ
jeff@dual.UUCP (Jeff Houston) (07/18/84)
Yes, the correct call is that the runners score, the batter is credited
with a single (if he missed second). The same call is made if the batter
manages to pass the runner who was on first before he reaches second base,
batter is out rest of runners score. This actually occured in a major
league game about 10 years ago, a pinch hitter for the Tigers was up with
the bases loaded (I have forgotten who it was - nobody notable), anyway he
proceeded to club the ball over the fench for an apparent grand slam! In
his enthusiasum the batter ran past the runner who had originally been on
first, the batter was called out but was credited with a 3-RBI single.
One additional neat rule in baseball, is that on all appeal plays on things
like missed bases the ball is live, and runners may advance at their own
risk. My softball team has scored 4 runs this way: runner moves up from
second to third on sacrifice fly, fielding team appeals with throw to
second when time is in, runner on third goes home! Not to many people
are aware of this rule but it's an easy way to score a run every so often.
To quote the immortal Bill the Cat, "GACK".
Jeff Houston
Dual Systems Corp., Berkeley, CA
{ucbvax,ihnp4,cbosgd,zehntel,fortune,decwrl,a few more I dont know of}!dual!jeffdlash@ihn5l.UUCP (Dave Lash) (07/19/84)
Thanks to those who responded to my "you make the call" segment! Yesterday, a fellow netter and I looked up the "You make the call" play I described in a book specializing in unusual baseball plays. The situation they covered was bags loaded two outs. Batter hits a homerun, misses second. The oppossing team appeals and wins the appeal. All THREE Runners score. (Since the out was recorded AFTER all runners scored. Therefore, in our game we should have protested (and would have won). Another interesting play the book covered was: Bags loaded two outs. Batter hits a basehit. R1 (who was on first) misses second and goes to third. R2 and R3 score. Defensive team appeals and wins. What is the call? NO RUNS score since the appeal becomes a force out and no runs can score on an inning-ending force out. dave lash ihn5l!dlash
woods@hao.UUCP (Greg "Bucket" Woods) (07/20/84)
I remember that game with the three-run single, because it was in Fenway
park against the Red Sox. The batter was Dalton Jones, and he hit one with
the bases loaded and two outs into the infamous left field screen for
an apparent grand slam. When he passed the runner between first and second,
he was called out and credited with a 3-RBI single.
--Greg
--
{ucbvax!hplabs | allegra!nbires | decvax!stcvax | harpo!seismo | ihnp4!stcvax}
!hao!woods
"..every silver lining has a touch of grey..."michaelf@ism780.UUCP (08/01/84)
#R:ihn5l:-11000:ism780:20400015:000:905
ism780!michaelf Jul 20 12:35:00 1984
Once the batter has reached fist safely, it is a matter of who
does what first after that. Let me explain. If your second runner
scored before the batter was out, he is a legit score. Your case is
a strange one. The batter was not out until the appeal play was made
(I'm assuming this was the case) and I'm sure that your second runner
had scored by then. It should have been two runs scored, end of inning.
Even though it is a judgement call (deciding who did what first; who
scored or who got out first) it may be appealable since I'm sure the
runner scored before the appeal play was made. Your batter could have
came out of the dugout, touched home, then third and then second before
the appeal was made. Tough luck.
I had an outfielder catch a ball and fall over the homerun fence. Talk
about your screaming arguments.