lor@ucla-cs.UUCP (08/15/84)
It is really too much. In the past week we saw full-scale brawls in two games (Mets at Cubs, Padres at Braves). Should the major league office do something about it? In the NBA playoff last season, many players breaking away for baskets were fouled terribly. The NBA decided to change the rule (two foul shots + possession of the ball) to protect the players. Why can't we do that in baseball? Arguments between the teams center on whether the beanball is intentional or not, which is the cause of retaliation. We should consider this irrelevant. If a batter is beaned, either accidentally or intentionally, the pitcher should be penalized. This, however, does not apply if the batter deliberately steps on the plate to be hit. These are the suggestions: 1) Award the beaned player, plus any other players on base at that time, runs. So beaning a player is equivalent to giving a home run. or 2) Eject the pitcher immediately, no matter it is first time, second time, or retaliation. Dickie Thon of Houston was hit on the face at the beginning of this season. He still has not recovered from that hit, and may be forced to retired. That bean may have been accidental, but if a pitcher realizes the penalty, he may have better control on his throw.
david@fisher.UUCP (David Rubin) (08/16/84)
[Who's afraid of the first line being ea > Dickie Thon of Houston was hit on the face at the beginning of >this season. He still has not recovered from that hit, and may be forced >to retired. That bean may have been accidental, but if a pitcher realizes >the penalty, he may have better control on his throw. Hey, I know of lot of pitchers who wished they had better control. Does this mean that the threat of severe penalties will make them more successful pitchers? David Rubin {allegra|astrovax|princeton}!fisher!david
jimph@ihuxs.UUCP (Jim Hendricks) (08/16/84)
>>> If the batter is beaned, either accidentally or intentionally, >>> the pitcher should be penalized. No, no, no, no!!!! I fully support beanball penalties being stricter than they are because it IS extremely dangerous to be throwing at people and you do not want to in any way endanger someone's career just because of a rivalry and defending your dignity. BUT, you should also take care when making the rules, that you do not interfere with the actual skills involved in playing the game, and if you penalize a pitcher for hitting a batter, you are in effect taking the inside corner of the plate away from a pitcher who is having slight control problems. He is not going to want to throw inside for fear of throwing a little too far inside and hitting the batter. Jim Hendricks ihuxs!jimph
stank@uiucdcs.UUCP (08/17/84)
#R:ucla-cs:-80500:uiucdcs:12900020:000:597
uiucdcs!stank Aug 17 15:57:00 1984
<>
I would hate to see a rule which would, in effect, outlaw
the brushback pitch. HOWEVER, things do seem to be getting out
of hand. I like the suggestion of the "home run penalty", but
would award that only in the situations where, under current rules,
pitchers and managers get thrown out of the game. Given the strength
of most major league bullpens and the experience of most coaches, merely
tossing out the pitcher and manager is pretty lame punishment.
Stanley Krolikoski
U of Illinois
..!pur-ee!uiucdcs!stankgarys@bunker.UUCP (Gary Samuelson) (08/21/84)
Suggested penalties for a hit batsman: First time (either team): Batter gets first base; other runners advanced only if forced. Second time (either team): Batter gets second base; all runners get two bases, whether forced or not. Third time (either team): Batter gets third base; all runners score. Fourth time (either team): Batter gets "home run;" all runner score. In addition: Second time by same pitcher: Pitcher is ejected. Third time by same team: Manager is ejected. The second DELIBERATE beanball by the same team is cause for forfeiture (maybe even the first). In all cases, the league can impose whatever fines and suspensions seem appropriate (within some range). Comments? Gary Samuelson ittvax!bunker!garys
rcpilz@ihuxj.UUCP (R. C. Pilz) (08/23/84)
I like the general idea. What I like even better is: First intentional hitting of the player or near miss, warn both benches. Second bean ball - HOME RUN - pitcher and manager ejected. Fines to follow as appropriate by the league. The umpire should be intelligent enough to know the difference between a pitcher throwing a "purpose pitch" that protects the strike zone from the hitter and a "get even" pitch to hurt the player for previously hitting a Home Run or from a beaning in a previous. The umpires can figure it out, I usually can. The way the rules are made now, the hitters are more bold and stay up too long because they feel the rules are on their side. They are going to get killed. We need to make the penalties so severe that it just is not good for the team to do it (the bean ball) let alone unfair. (Go Chicago --- pick your team!) R. C. Pilz
marc@bmcg.UUCP (08/24/84)
I think the idea of stiffer penalties as the number of beanballs increases is good -- however, this would not have been appropriate in the case of the San Diego-Atlanta game. This is because Atlanta hit two batters, Wiggins and Nettles, and if I remember right San Diego only hit Perez once. Most of the people on this net, however, seem to feel that the whole matter was the Padres' fault (even though Perez started it.) In this case, "hit batsmen" would have to be changed to "thrown-at batsmen" to account for the fact that it took San Diego so many tries to finally tag Perez. Marc Lee Burroughs
rs@hou3c.UUCP (rs) (08/28/84)
Just a correction on Marc Lee's comment: perez was hit *every* time he came up to bat. (at least 3 times) Also, an aside, Walter Johnson felt that if he ever hit a batter (they didn't wear helmets then) in the head, that he would kill them, and in his entire career did not hit a batter! Bob Switzer
wph@iwu1c.UUCP (warren hentrich) (08/29/84)
According to the Official baseball record book published by the Sporting News in 1979, Walter Johnson did hit quite a few batters. In the 21 years from 1907 to 1927, he hit 206 batters. -- Warren Hentrich iwu1c!wph
rs@hou3c.UUCP (R. Switzer) (09/04/84)
Just a word of apology, I stand corrected in my comment with regard to the number of times Perez from Atlanta was *hit* by the ball while at bat. I was told that he was only *thrown* at every time at bat, and only hit once as per the original posting. Bob Switzer