mek@rruxu.UUCP (M Kaufman) (12/10/84)
[eat this, mr. bow-tie] Ok, ok, I know that the Mets need more hitters, but where the heck did they come up with the bright idea of getting Howard Johnson? Who the hell Is Howard Johnson, and is he worth a Walt Terrell? What's weirdest of all is that Johnson, besides being the only Detroit Tiger kept out of the World Series because "it would make him too nervous (!)," is an infielder, for god's sake. Who needs more infielders? The Mets just let Brian Giles and Junior Ortiz go for nothing (I know, Ortiz is a catcher). I would think that Huibe Brooks and Ray Knight are more than enough! Plus Santana and Oquendo and Gardenhire. Nope, I can't see this Johnson trade unless Cashen has something up his sleeve in terms of another trade. Is it true the Phillies are looking to unload Bo Diaz? Now there's someone the Mets could use! A puzzled Matt Kaufman Grumbles - The Chicago Slugs resigned Steve Trout - too bad. It appears they are close to resigning Sutcliffe. Oh well, at least the St. Louis Deadbirds lost Bruce Sutter (nice movie white rat) and probably any hopes they had for contending over the next few years. Neil Allen will never be another Sutter. Neil Allen for Keith Hernandez. Gloat Gloat Chuckle!
david@fisher.UUCP (David Rubin) (12/11/84)
[sing praises to mr. bow-tie!] I, too, was quite puzzled by the acquisition of Howard Johnson, and could only explain it by assuming that the Mets were planning to trade away someone from the left side of the infield. It turns out this was the case. Little did I suspect that Cashen would actually get us Gary Carter, the single player in the majors today who would most improve the Mets. When they announced (during the Monday night football game) that there had been a big baseball trade sending Carter to the Mets (at least I was hoping they had said the "Mets"), I started figuring who the Mets had given up. I settled on Brooks (the Expos want middle infielders who can hit), Fitzgerald (they would of course need a catcher), and Sisk (Reardon was rumored to be on the way out). I wasn't too far off, and pleasantly surprised, that the actual deal was for Brooks, Fitzgerald, Wynningham (good-looking AAA outfielder), and pitcher who I had not heard of (began with a "T", I think). And to think I would have been pleased by getting only Diaz! Frank Cashen, I doff my cap to you, sir! David Rubin
jeff@dciem.UUCP (Jeff Richardson) (12/12/84)
Looking at the Carter deal from the other side, it was a shocker but trading
Carter kind of makes sense. The Expos, once perennial runners-up, were
getting worse, so it was time for them to take a new approach. They say
that Carter was a bit of a disrupting influence at times, and his annual
salary is about $1.8 million, but he's generally thought to be the best
catcher in all of baseball, and he's coming off his best season offensively,
so if they're looking at rebuilding the team, he's the best one to trade.
Being the best in the game at his position, a contending team would
be willing to give up a lot of good young prospects for him, and young
prospects would certainly help a rebuilding team more than a 30 year-old.
When your team is going downhill, you have to gamble or it's not likely
to get better. The only thing I don't understand about the trade is why
they made a trade that will almost certainly help the Mets more than the
Expos (at least for the next few years anyway) with a team in their own
division that's already better than they are. They must be looking about
five years down the road because they've helped the Mets so much that it's
going to be a long time before they have a chance of finishing ahead of
them. I wonder what die-hard Expo fans like my brother-in-law think of
the deal. I saw my brother-in-law a little over a week ago, and he thought
the Expos would make a big trade, but I don't think he even thought about
them trading Carter. He thought they might make a pitch for Ricky Henderson.
--
Jeff Richardson, DCIEM, Toronto (416) 635-2073
{linus,ihnp4,uw-beaver,floyd}!utcsrgv!dciem!jeff
{allegra,ihnp4,linus,decvax}!utzoo!dciem!jeffrossiter@cornell.UUCP (David Rossiter) (12/12/84)
It seems like the net is populated by loyal Mets fans... so much the better. Anyway, we have a lot to talk about... It's very painful to give up a proven young role player like Hubie Brooks. This man did everything that was asked of him, and more. And what a gun for an arm! Winningham looked very good in tripleA last year, and during September (he's the answer to the trivia question: which Met made the last out of 1984? -- it was against Montreal!), and looked to give Mookie a run for the position, if Mookie couldn't stop swinging at bad pitches. Fitzgerald doesn't bother me as much, although it would be very nice to have him as second catcher. Now that Ortiz has gone (along with his .190) and Hodges has been released, are we hoping for Stearns? I think management is counting on Clint Hurdle. He spent last year learning to catch at Tidewater. He's young (about 28?), a proven big league hitter, and could spell Carter every once in a while, play some outfield, and pinch hit. Gary Carter. He created clubhouse problems in Montreal (but that's a strange place to play, by all accounts). His huge salary won't be resented in Winfield-town (look what Foster is making, after all). He is one of the best players in the majors. But he has indicated that he doesn't want to catch too many more years... that bothers me. Ideally you'd want someone to whom catching is a way of life, like Carleton Fisk. I worry about Carter's attitude. But what a player! And good in the clutch. Now there are problems on the left side of the infield. Knight has to show us more at 3rd, Santana has to improve his hitting. I hope Davey isn't planning to start Gardenhire -- he's a utility man at best. Howard Johnson can't play in front of crowds! If he didn't like it in Detroit, what's he going to think of NYC with the merciless public and journalists? Not to mention what happens the first time a 757 takes off from LGA right over his head! So here's my starting lineup (Davey, do you read this? Rubin, maybe you can send him a copy. I hear he's into computers). 1 - Backman (2b) 2 - Wilson (cf) 3 - Hernandez (1b) 4 - Carter (c) 5 - Strawberry (rf) 6 - Foster (lf) 7 - Knight (3b) 8 - Santana (ss) 9 - Gooden (p) On paper (or is it magnetic media?) this looks pretty good. To win we need: 1) Strawberry to play consistently up to his (great) ability 2) steady performances from Hernandez and Carter (real pros) 3) a respectable year during the decline of a great career from Foster 4) Mookie to get better bat control (I've got him 2nd) 5) Backman to play like he did last year 6) Knight to play decently (less need for 3rd base power now) 7) good defense by Santana, not too anemic b.a. 8) a more consistent effort from Darling & Sisk 9) Jesse to continue slamming the door ... I don't mention Dwight because the only way he can't succeeed is to be hit by one of those airplanes...
psm@asgb.UUCP (12/13/84)
Being a fan of the World Champ's I'm not surprised to see that Sparky traded away Howard Johnson. Hojo has been in Sparky's doghouse for the last two years. I'm not to sure who Walt Terrel is but I would say the the Mets got the best of the deal. Hojo has batted over .300 a couple of years in the minors and hit in that neighborhood this year (with 13-15 HRs). Also Johnson was originally an outfielder, he was part of Sparky's great experiment at 3b the last two years (which was a total flop both years). Hojo will give you die-hard Mets fans some more things to fill the net up with. Pat McMonagle
citrin@ucbvax.ARPA (Wayne Citrin) (12/13/84)
In article <109@rruxu.UUCP> mek@rruxu.UUCP (M Kaufman) writes: >[eat this, mr. bow-tie] > >Ok, ok, I know that the Mets need more hitters, >but where the heck did they come up with the bright idea of >getting Howard Johnson? Who the hell Is Howard Johnson, and is >he worth a Walt Terrell? What's weirdest of all is that Johnson, >besides being the only Detroit Tiger kept out of the World Series >because "it would make him too nervous (!)," is an >infielder, for god's sake. Who needs more infielders? The Mets just >let Brian Giles and Junior Ortiz go for nothing (I know, >Ortiz is a catcher). >I would think that Huibe Brooks and Ray Knight are more than >enough! Plus Santana and Oquendo and Gardenhire. Nope, I can't see this >Johnson trade unless Cashen has something up his sleeve in terms of >another trade. Is it true the Phillies are looking to unload >Bo Diaz? Now there's someone the Mets could use! > > > A puzzled > Matt Kaufman Well, it's obvious now that something was in the works all the time. Was the trade for Carter a good trade? Originally, I had mixed feelings. It seemed like a step forward, but also a step backward. I like Hubie Brooks, and he did a good job at shortstop at the end of the season. Mike Fitzgerald did an adequate job, although he really wasn't in the Mets' long-range plans (John Gibbons was). Herm Winningham probably would have challenged for Mookie Wilson's job next year, and Floyd Youmans is a Dwight Gooden clone who struck out >1 man per inning last year, although he doesn't have the control that Gooden has. In all, there is a good deal of promise in the four traded players, but no sure things, and except in the case of Brooks, nothing proven. Carter, on the other hand, is a proven star, in the prime of his career, who is the most dominant NL catcher since Johnny Bench. You can expect him to turn in a year with a .271 average, 25-30 home runs, and 90-100 RBI. Unlike George Foster, who choked on the pressure when he came to New York, Carter has made a great deal of money for several years, has been under intense scrutiny in Montreal, and has still produced, and I expect him to continue to produce. I think Carter will more than make up for the loss of Brooks' bat, and neither Ray Knight nor Howard Johnson (who will replace Brooks at third) is a slouch at the plate, either. In all, I think it is a fine trade. Besides the Carter trade, Johnson was obtained from the Tigers as insurance in case Ray Knight's shoulder doesn't heal properly this winter. Other implications of the Carter trade: - Rafael Santana will be the Mets' regular shortstop. Fine. He's a good fielder and a good hitter, and the only reason he never cracked the lineup in St. Louis is that Ozzie Smith was ahead of him. - Ron Gardenhire will be the back-up shortstop of choice and Jose Oquendo will go. - Mookie Wilson's job is probably safe. After the season, he was being discussed as trade bait for Jack Clark. Clark would have been the Mets' right fielder and Darryl Strawberry would have been the new center fielder. Presumably, if Strawberry couldn't handle the job, Winningham would have been around to take over. I'm happy that Mookie will be staying. He's become a good center fielder, and Backman-Wilson is one of the best 1-2 pairs of any NL batting order. Two questions: - Who will take Terrell's place in the pitching rotation? Calvin Schiraldi? - Will the Mets try to sign Rusty Staub now that they have Knight, Johnson, and Danny Heep off the bench? All three can play the field, something Staub can't do. Wayne Citrin (ucbvax!citrin)