gadfly@ihu1m.UUCP (Gadfly) (01/30/85)
--
The "What are 7 ways to get to 1st without getting a hit?"
question is great fun at parties, though in my experience
it often leads to an argument about whether catcher interference
is really distinct from fielder's obstruction. Imagine my
amusement when a friend came up with an entirely new way, which
he claims is legal: Steal 1st from 2nd. To my immediate query,
"Why would anyone do that?", he said, "To run up his statistics.
Maybe the guy has a bonus riding on the number of stolen bases.
He'll certainly have the element of surprise on his side."
Well, *can* you steal 1st from 2nd?
--
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..ihnp4!iwsl8!ken *** ***cpf@lasspvax.UUCP (Courtenay Footman) (01/30/85)
In article <> gadfly@ihu1m.UUCP (Gadfly) writes: >-- >The "What are 7 ways to get to 1st without getting a hit?" >... >Well, *can* you steal 1st from 2nd? No. This was allowed in the early days of baseball, but now there is a rule that outlaws "runing the bases in a manner to decieve the opponent"; among other things, it prohibits running the bases backwords. (The quote is not exact; I am working from memory.) -- Courtenay Footman arpa: cpf@lnsvax Newman Lab. of Nuclear Studies usenet: cornell!lnsvax!cpf Cornell University
rs@hou3c.UUCP (Bob Switzer) (01/30/85)
<> You absolutely CANNOT steal 1st base from 2nd base. And You cannot steal 2nd base from 3rd base. I don't recall the specific rule, but basically once you've made a particular base ( in the normal act of base running, as opposed to being required to go back by an umpires ruling on a previous play ), and play stops, you can't go back to the previous base. During a play, you can return to the base you were on at the start of play by "re-touching" all bases crossed (e.g. if you had to tag up on a fly ball and you had already crossed the following base). I hope the above makes sense to you, and I hope someone can post the relevant rules. Enjoy... -- R. Switzer @ AT&T Bell Labs Rm. 3L-434 / Crawford Corner Rd. Holmdel NJ 07733 phn:1(201)949 5133 ...!hou3c!rs
tommyo@ihuxw.UUCP (Tom O`Connor) (01/31/85)
No, you can not go backwards on the basepaths. It may have been tried in the early days to confuse a team, but the rule book took care of that one. Anyway, wouldn`t that be a negative SB? Tom O`Connor
stevev@tekchips.UUCP (Steve Vegdahl) (01/31/85)
> Imagine my > amusement when a friend came up with an entirely new way, which > he claims is legal: Steal 1st from 2nd. To my immediate query, > "Why would anyone do that?", he said, "To run up his statistics. I'd never thought of that one before! I can imagine a situation where this could happen for a "legitimate" reason. Runner on second, leading off. Pitcher attempts to pick runner off, but runner beats throw; however, in reaching second, the runner loses his balance and falls towards first, losing contact with the bag. This results in a rundown between first and second in which the runner manages to make it safely to first. A little far-fetched, but I've seen stranger things in baseball. Is this legit according to baseball rules? If not, what are the runners options once he is in "no man's land" between second and first? the fielding teams options? If the runner cannot legally return to first, it would seem that the play at second (once the runner has fallen) would be a force play. Steve Vegdahl Computer Research Lab. Tektronix, Inc. Beaverton, Oregon
glass@houxf.UUCP (K.GLASS) (02/01/85)
I heard that the change was made because Ty Cobb used to do it so often (claiming he was getting bored at 2nd!). Ken Glass ...ihnp4!houxf1glass
matthew@ucla-cs.UUCP (02/02/85)
In article <263@ihu1m.UUCP> (Gadfly) writes: >-- >Well, *can* you steal 1st from 2nd? >-- In the earlier days of baseball, there was no explicit rule against stealing first from second. However, nobody ever thought of trying it. One day, some fairly incredible baserunner (name escapes me) got to first (on a single), with a man on third. He tried to draw a throw from the pitcher by stealing second. When the pitcher didn't try to throw him out, he tried to draw a throw again by stealing first from second. Within a week or two, the rule was changed, and now runners may only steal in "forward" progression. This is all verifiable in a baseball trivia book I have at home. Unfortunately, my memory for book titles is about the same as my memory for old baseball players. Matthew Merzbacher matthew@ucla-locus
presley@mhuxb.UUCP (Joe Presley) (02/02/85)
> that outlaws "runing the bases in a manner to decieve the opponent"; among
You mean like inscribing explosive runes or glyphs of confusion on the
bases??? :-)
--
joe presley (ihnp4!j.presley)boone@mmm.UUCP (David E. Boone) (02/03/85)
> -- > The "What are 7 ways to get to 1st without getting a hit?" > Well, *can* you steal 1st from 2nd? no you can not. although i can not quote exactly the rule, the runner would be declared our for making a farce of the game. (this rule was added a long time ago after some runner did steal first back, dizzy dean gas house gang era i believe) p.s. in 20 years of umpiring i have yet to enforce this rule.
ugclemon@sunybcs.UUCP (Robert Clemons) (02/04/85)
> The "What are 7 ways to get to 1st without getting a hit?" > question is great fun at parties, though in my experience > it often leads to an argument about whether catcher interference > is really distinct from fielder's obstruction. Imagine my > amusement when a friend came up with an entirely new way, which > he claims is legal: Steal 1st from 2nd. To my immediate query, > "Why would anyone do that?", he said, "To run up his statistics. > Maybe the guy has a bonus riding on the number of stolen bases. > He'll certainly have the element of surprise on his side." > Well, *can* you steal 1st from 2nd? I recall reading about an incident that occurred many years ago where a player (I don't remember who) continually ran back and forth between 1st and 2nd to draw the throw of the catcher and allow the run to score from 3rd. The book (I don't remember the title) claimed that this incident prompted the adoption of a rule that disallows running the bases in reverse order. An unofficial rule book I own states that a runner is out if he runs the bases in reverse order or "otherwise attempts to confuse the game". -- Robert Clemons SUNY @ Buffalo
omh@brunix.UUCP (Owen M. Hartnett) (02/15/85)
The incident is written up in the book "The Glory of Their Times" by Lawrence Ritter. The 1st base stealer's name was Germany Schaefer. The book consists of several extensive (and great) interviews with old time ballplayers. This incident was narrated by Davy Jones: [Schaefer had just stolen second trying to draw a throw so a man on third would score] ...So now we had men on second and third. Well, on the next pitch Schaefer yelled, "Let's try it again!" And with a blood-curdling shout he took off like a wild Indian back to first base, and dove in headfirst in a cloud of dust... He figured the catcher might throw to first-since he evidently wouldn't throw to second. [the catcher held the ball on the first steal]. But nothing happened. Nothing at all. Everybody just stood there and watched Schaefer, with their mouths open. Me, too. Even if the catcher had throw to first, I was too stunned to move, I'll tell you that. But the catcher didn't throw. He just stared! In fact, George Stovall, the Cleveland first baseman, was playing way back and didn't even come in to cover the bag... The umpires were just as confused as everybody else. However, it turned out that at that time there wasn't any rule against a guy going from second back to first, if that's the way he wanted to play baseball, so they had to let it stand... [Schaefer tried to steal second again.] And on the next pitch darned if he didn't let out another war whoop and take off agin for second base. By this time the Cleveland catcher evidently had enough, because he finally threw to second to get Schaefer, and when he did I took off for home and both of us were safe. [I highly recommend the book]