cherson@fsleng.DEC (05/24/85)
I'd to take a little poll amongst you afficianados of baseball. What is your
opinion of Pete Rose, I mean Pete Rose the player not the Grecian Formula
model.
In Rose's case there is no dichotomy between personality and effort. I can
remember getting sick at the sight of him and his burrhead go sliding into
first base; Although his hair got longer he was the same asshole as before.
Pete Rose is full of shit when he says that he is not staying on as a player in
order to break Ty Cobb's basehit record, blah, blah, blah. Well I understand
that Cobb was an asshole also, so maybe it would be fitting.
I'm not going to waste anymore space I'm finished :-. Send your opinions now!
David "Justice for Nellie Fox" Chersonwimp@sphinx.UChicago.UUCP (Jeff Haferman) (05/26/85)
> I'd to take a little poll amongst you afficianados of baseball. What is your > opinion of Pete Rose, I mean Pete Rose the player not the Grecian Formula > model. > In Rose's case there is no dichotomy between personality and effort. I can > remember getting sick at the sight of him and his burrhead go sliding into > first base; Although his hair got longer he was the same asshole as before. I like Pete. I'll bet he would think you're an a*s*o*e. (I'm just speculating) > Pete Rose is full of shit when he says that he is not staying on as a player > inorder to break Ty Cobb's basehit record, blah, blah, blah. Well I under- > stand that Cobb was an asshole also, so maybe it would be fitting. Yeah, but put yourself in Pete's shoes (I'll bet you'd love to). Wouldn't it just suck to retire so close to the record? I say if he has the means to do it, more power to him, records are meant to be broken, and all of that malarkey. Jeff Haferman p.s. - John McEnroe is wonderful also.
wph@ihuxn.UUCP (hentrich) (05/30/85)
David Cheerson asks, "What do you think of Pete Rose?" In case you have not noticed, Pete is one of the few active players with a lifetime batting average over .300. He has led the NL in batting 3 times, hits 7 times, doubles 5 times, and runs scored 4 times. I do not recall anyone else ever being elected to the all-star game while being a regular at 5 different positions (2B, LF, RF, 3B, 1B). Pete owns the current major league records (as of the start of the 1985 season) for most singles lifetime 3082, most seasons 200 or more hits 10, highest fielding percentage lifetime for outfielders with 1000 or more games .991. Pete owns the NL record for most hits lifetime 4097, most doubles 726. Pete also owns or shares at least 29 other NL and major league records. Pete was named the NL rookie of the year by both The Sporting News (TSN) and the Baseball Writers Association of America (BWAA) in 1963. TSN named Pete the NL MVP in 1968. The BWAA voted Pete the same honor in 1973. Pete has been named to TSN's NL all-star team at all 5 positions he has started. Pete was named TSN's "PLAYER OF THE DECADE" for 1970 - 1979. While the above are individual stats, Pete has always been the ultimate team player. In 1967, Pete was moved from 2B to LF to make room for T. Helms. From 1967 until 1974 he was moved between LF and RF depending on the needs of the team. In 1975 Pete was asked to move into 3B to make room in the outfield for Ken Griffey. Sparky Anderson said publically that Pete was responsible for a smooth transition and was one of the most unselfish players in his memory. By moving to 3B, Sparky said that Pete Rose was greatly responsible for the Reds great teams in 1975 and 1976. Finally, in 1979 when he went to Philadelphia, Pete played 1B. One must remember that he was an all-star player at each position and was moved to a new position requiring different skills. Pete made all the moves with a spirit of teamwork. I doubt that an asshole, as David suggests Pete is, would have moved at all, let alone as often and as smoothly as Pete did. I believe that I have seen Pete play more games than David, and I cannot ever remember seeing him sliding headfirst into 1B. What I do remember is seeing him hustle to 1B after a walk, always taking the extra base, diving for balls in the field, in short, doing whatever was necessary to win. Even in the all-star game his hustle and desire to win for his team is exceptional. Who can forget his collision with Ray Fosse in the 1970 all-star game. While some players are making excuses not to play, Pete is risking injury to win. As for whether Pete is staying around merely to break Cobb's record of 4191 hits, Pete does want the record. However, he still has very good offensive skills. He is hitting over .290 (last week in May). If every player hitting less than .290 were to retire, there would not be many teams remaining. I believe that if Pete were hitting .220 or .230, he would retire and not embarress himself and the game he enjoys so much. Finally, the fans in Cincinnati love Pete Rose. His first game back with the Reds was against the Cubs, and was televised in Chicago. When he got a hit in his first AB in that game the crowd erupted and when the Cubs CF committed an error and let Pete dive into 3B the noise was deafening. "What do I think of Pete Rose?" I think he is the greatest. Warren P. Hentrich ihuxn!wph
ogre@mhuxl.UUCP (LO COCO) (05/31/85)
> David Cheerson asks, "What do you think of Pete Rose?" > > ...lifetime batting average over .300. > ... elected to the all-star game while being a regular at 5 > different positions (2B, LF, RF, 3B, 1B). > > While the above are individual stats, Pete has always been the > ultimate team player. > Sparky Anderson said publically that Pete > was responsible for a smooth transition and was one of the most > unselfish players in his memory. > Pete made all the moves with a spirit of teamwork. > I doubt that an asshole, as David suggests Pete is, would > have moved at all, let alone as often and as smoothly as > Pete did. > What I do remember is seeing him hustle to 1B after a walk, > always taking the extra base, diving for balls in the field, in > short, doing whatever was necessary to win. > Even in the all-star game his hustle and desire to win for his > team is exceptional. Who can forget his collision with Ray > Fosse in the 1970 all-star game. > > "What do I think of Pete Rose?" > > I think he is the greatest. > > Warren P. Hentrich > ihuxn!wph I'd like to second what you say about Pete. Unfortunately for my tenure as a fan of baseball, I have more often than not been on the opposite side of the fence with Pete. His aggressive play usually upset me since it was he doing what he could to win! Now that the dust has cleared, so to speak, I'd like to say that I wish Pete had played for a team that I was rooting for. He is the essence of what Vince Lombardi cultivated in football: a winner; for what do we play for but to win. HE IS MR. HUSTLE! Good luck Pete! Go for the books and of course the HALL OF FAME. -- John B. Lo Coco (...mhuxl!ogre) (...szuxn!ogre) 1-201-467-7436
david@fisher.UUCP (David Rubin) (05/31/85)
> David Cheerson asks, "What do you think of Pete Rose?" > .............[general tribute to Rose's great career].......... > As for whether Pete is staying around merely to break Cobb's > record of 4191 hits, Pete does want the record. However, he > still has very good offensive skills. He is hitting over .290 > (last week in May). If every player hitting less than .290 > were to retire, there would not be many teams remaining. I > believe that if Pete were hitting .220 or .230, he would retire > and not embarress himself and the game he enjoys so much. Yes, Rose is hitting .290, but that does not make him a .290 hitter. Looking at his stats from the past few years, we find he is really about a .250-.260 hitter with no power who's off to a good start this year. I no more expect Rose to bat .290 this season than I expect Herr to bat .370. Now Rose's offense is downright good for a shortstop, decent for a catcher, and not the worst for a benchman. But Rose is Cincinnati's everyday first baseman! There are zillions of people who could be expected to produce more offense in the Reds' lineup. Cincinnati has a surplus of productive outfielders, some developing and therefore requiring playing time. It is insane for the Reds not to move Cedeno to first so as to get more playing time for Walker, Redus, Milner, and Davis. At least, insane from the viewpoint of what will help the Reds win ballgames. > Finally, the fans in Cincinnati love Pete Rose. His first > game back with the Reds was against the Cubs, and was > televised in Chicago. When he got a hit in his first AB > in that game the crowd erupted and when the Cubs CF > committed an error and let Pete dive into 3B the noise was > deafening. No doubt about it, the fans love it, and its their team, right? But that doesn't mean we have to pretend that Rose's bat is a positive asset anywhere but at the gate. > "What do I think of Pete Rose?" > I think he is the greatest. > Warren P. Hentrich > ihuxn!wph Maybe he WAS the greatest. He's distinctly below average now. His continued presence in the lineup (and the convenient insistence on playing Cedeno in left) may retard the development of the Reds' talented young outfielders. If it were not for the pursuit of Cobb's record, Rose would be at most a pinch-hitter and occasional starter. Because of the pursuit of the record, he is Cincinnati's biggest draw and font of baseball excitement. David Rubin {allegra|astrovax|princeton}!fisher!david
david@fisher.UUCP (David Rubin) (05/31/85)
David Cheerson asks, "What do you think of Pete Rose?" In case you have not noticed, Pete is one of the few active players with a lifetime batting average over .300. He has led the NL in batting 3 times, hits 7 times, doubles 5 times, and runs scored 4 times. I do not recall anyone else ever being elected to the all-star game while being a regular at 5 different positions (2B, LF, RF, 3B, 1B). Pete owns the current major league records (as of the start of the 1985 season) for most singles lifetime 3082, most seasons 200 or more hits 10, highest fielding percentage lifetime for outfielders with 1000 or more games .991. Pete owns the NL record for most hits lifetime 4097, most doubles 726. Pete also owns or shares at least 29 other NL and major league records. Pete was named the NL rookie of the year by both The Sporting News (TSN) and the Baseball Writers Association of America (BWAA) in 1963. TSN named Pete the NL MVP in 1968. The BWAA voted Pete the same honor in 1973. Pete has been named to TSN's NL all-star team at all 5 positions he has started. Pete was named TSN's "PLAYER OF THE DECADE" for 1970 - 1979. While the above are individual stats, Pete has always been the ultimate team player. In 1967, Pete was moved from 2B to LF to make room for T. Helms. From 1967 until 1974 he was moved between LF and RF depending on the needs of the team. In 1975 Pete was asked to move into 3B to make room in the outfield for Ken Griffey. Sparky Anderson said publically that Pete was responsible for a smooth transition and was one of the most unselfish players in his memory. By moving to 3B, Sparky said that Pete Rose was greatly responsible for the Reds great teams in 1975 and 1976. Finally, in 1979 when he went to Philadelphia, Pete played 1B. One must remember that he was an all-star player at each position and was moved to a new position requiring different skills. Pete made all the moves with a spirit of teamwork. I doubt that an asshole, as David suggests Pete is, would have moved at all, let alone as often and as smoothly as Pete did. I believe that I have seen Pete play more games than David, and I cannot ever remember seeing him sliding headfirst into 1B. What I do remember is seeing him hustle to 1B after a walk, always taking the extra base, diving for balls in the field, in short, doing whatever was necessary to win. Even in the all-star game his hustle and desire to win for his team is exceptional. Who can forget his collision with Ray Fosse in the 1970 all-star game. While some players are making excuses not to play, Pete is risking injury to win. As for whether Pete is staying around merely to break Cobb's record of 4191 hits, Pete does want the record. However, he still has very good offensive skills. He is hitting over .290 (last week in May). If every player hitting less than .290 were to retire, there would not be many teams remaining. I believe that if Pete were hitting .220 or .230, he would retire and not embarress himself and the game he enjoys so much. Finally, the fans in Cincinnati love Pete Rose. His first game back with the Reds was against the Cubs, and was televised in Chicago. When he got a hit in his first AB in that game the crowd erupted and when the Cubs CF committed an error and let Pete dive into 3B the noise was deafening. "What do I think of Pete Rose?" I think he is the greatest. Warren P. Hentrich ihuxn!wph *** REPLACE THIS LINE WITH YOUR MESSAGE ***
jmd@rduxb.UUCP (Joseph M. Dakes, AT&T Bell Labs, Reading, Pa.) (05/31/85)
> David Cheerson asks, "What do you think of Pete Rose?" > blah, blah, blah etc. > I think he is the greatest. > > Warren P. Hentrich > ihuxn!wph I am not a fan of Pete Rose (probably because I detest the Reds and Phillies) but, I would have to agree he is ONE of the greatest players of all time because year in and year out he always produces. However ... > Even in the all-star game his hustle and desire to win for his > team is exceptional. Who can forget his collision with Ray > Fosse in the 1970 all-star game. While some players are > making excuses not to play, Pete is risking injury to win. ... due to that (unforgettable?) collision with Fosse I would also have to say that Pete Rose is also ONE of the greatest assholes who ever played the game. Your right; some players don't want to play in the All-Star game for reasons of not wanting to risk injury to needing a rest to whatever. So what? It's only an exhibition game and most of the players who do play only go through the motions anyway except for Ass-Rose who will not only risk injury to himself but to others just so he can score a meaningless run in a meaningless game. If you remember correctly the injury Fosse sustained ended his career. Joseph M. Dakes AT&T Bell Laboratories Reading, PA rduxb!jmd
mcal@ihuxb.UUCP (Mike Clifford) (05/31/85)
> > David Cheerson asks, "What do you think of Pete Rose?" > > > blah, blah, blah etc. > > > I think he is the greatest. > > > > Warren P. Hentrich > > ihuxn!wph > > I am not a fan of Pete Rose (probably because I detest the Reds and Phillies) > but, I would have to agree he is ONE of the greatest players of all time > because year in and year out he always produces. However ... > > > Even in the all-star game his hustle and desire to win for his > > team is exceptional. Who can forget his collision with Ray > > Fosse in the 1970 all-star game. While some players are > > making excuses not to play, Pete is risking injury to win. > > ... due to that (unforgettable?) collision with Fosse I would also have to > say that Pete Rose is also ONE of the greatest assholes who ever played the > game. Your right; some players don't want to play in the All-Star game for > reasons of not wanting to risk injury to needing a rest to whatever... > > Joseph M. Dakes > AT&T Bell Laboratories Pete Rose is not an asshole for colliding with Ray Fosse in the 1970 All- Star game! What the hell was Fosse doing in the baseline if he himself didn't want to risk injury in this "worthless" game?! And he was in the baseline, blocking the plate, when the collision happened. True, Fosse was never the same afterwards, but that is his own fault. Mike Clifford
wetcw@pyuxa.UUCP (T C Wheeler) (06/03/85)
FOO on Pete Rose's house. Mets fans have been down on the Rose ever since he tried to use Buddy Harrelson, a rather diminutive shortstop, as second base. Petey Hustle still gets an occasinal catcall from those fans who remember that infamous play. T. C. Wheeler
bah@cbosgd.UUCP (Bruce Hartsough) (06/06/85)
I noted that David Cherson says it may be time to move on to other business,
but one thing as a long time Reds fan I must comment on is this business of
Pete's hurting the team effort by insisting on sticking around. Have any of
who say this seen the NL Western Division standings lately? See who's in
second, just a game and a half behind San Diego? This weekend the Reds and the
Padres have a four game series that could put them into first (and if the Reds
get swept please ignore this posting :-). I recall seeing a lot of preseason
polls in this newsgroup, but don't remember anyone saying the club would do
that well. There's a long time left to go, of course, but it should be noted:
1) Pete is batting .295 last I checked, over .300 as a leftie. I catch most
of the games on the radio, and he has come up with timely hitting and a
lot of walks to spark rallies.
2) The club is playing with tremendous enthusiasm. At least part of that
must be credited to the player/manager. This is evidenced by the number
of come from behind victories (although I'd prefer more of the boring lead
all the way variety, but after the Dick Wagner lean years I'll take any kind
they can come up with.)
3) What's this about talented young outfielders who aren't getting developed
because of Pete's selfishness? Leave it to Yankee, Cub, and Met supporters
to depict the Red's problems :-) The chief logjam here as been the aging
Cesar Cedeno, the waning cleanup batter who is hitting about .240 with few
or no homers. Of late the Reds have replaced him with multi-talented Gary
Redus in left, which netted immediate results. Young Eddie Milner is the
starter in center field and is doing OK. Much touted Eric Davis whiffed
his way back to the Denver farm club (with a capital K, though I suspect
he'll be back up later this year). That's about it for this nonproblem.
4) It bears restating that the fans should be calling the shots, and this
is the case in Cincinnati. Believe me, as long as Pete is playing
tolerably well they'd rather watch the hometown hero going for Cobb's
record than anything than anything else the game has to offer. It's
really a once in a lifetime thing to have a native son playing on the local
team getting close to a record thought to be unbreakable. The fact is
he is playing better than tolerably well at the plate, and what he has
admittedly lost in speed and defense is made up for in hustle and
leadership. I get down to Cincinnati a lot from my present base in
Columbus, and it is the talk of the town (along with the Bengal's signing
of Cris Collinsworth, but that's another newsgroup).
Re: Fosse. That's baseball. What good ever comes of playing for Cleveland? :-)
Seriously though, what's this about the All-Star game being just an exhibition
game? The NBA all-star game, the Pro Bowl, these indeed are meaningless
exhibitions. THE All-star game though, well, maybe it doesn't show up in the
standings, but only a true American Leaguer would deny that it's one of the
two World Championships of baseball :-). In most seasons it's easily the most
watched game of the year. From my experience, it is the most strongly cheered
game (the best party in any case - beats any one Series game for an excuse to
celebrate). It's the peak event of the my summer - fireworks are fine, but
I'll take the All-Star game over July fourth for lump-in-the-throat Americana.
Well, that's it. Just thought a true believer should be heard from before
we let this subject drop, especially when none of the articles on surprising
starts even mentioned the Reds. Or is not surprising considering the poor
start of the Braves, and the NL West's inability to put a team well over the
.500 mark? In any case, Red's fans are quite happy with the situation so far
this year, and if the club finishes over .500 it's got to be called a good
season. 'Nuff said.
Bruce Hartsough
AT&T Bell Laboratories
Columbus, Ohio
...cbosgd!cbcephus!bah
AT&T is a trademark of AT&T (is a trademark of AT&T is ...)mcdonald@sask.UUCP (Shane McDonald) (06/06/85)
> I believe that I have seen Pete play more games than David ... > > Warren P. Hentrich > ihuxn!wph Come to think of it, so have I. In fact, I can't even remember seeing David play. Seriously though, I don't think Pete is as much an a**h*** as he appears to be. I think the appropriate words are "cocky" and "gutsy". Don't misunderstand me though, I don't like him either. Shane McDonald (ihnp4!sask!mcdonald)