milos@inmet.UUCP (06/20/85)
1. Runner on 1st, nobody out. Batter hits a pop fly to infielder A, who drops it for an error. Then, trying for the [easy] force at 2nd, he throws the ball into the outfield, leaving runners on 1st and 2nd. Does infielder A get one error, or two? Why? 2. Runner on 1st, nobody out. Batter hits a one-hopper to 3rd, who forces runner at 2nd. 2nd basemen makes good relay to 1st to beat batter by 2 steps for the DP, but 1st basemen pulls foot off base too early -- batter is safe. Does 1st baseman get an error? Why? No opinions/guesses, please. If there is an official scorer's handbook, how about specific references. Bob Milosavljevic ...ihnp4!inmet!milos
jcg@cbosgd.UUCP (Jim Grams) (06/28/85)
Scoring, like umpiring, isn't always as easy as it looks.
The first case you mention is an odd one. It assumes an infield pop
that doesn't get called for the infield-fly rule, which implies it
does not look like a routine out. I see at least two ways that this
is likely to occur, and the scoring for them might be different.
1A) Batter hits a soft, low pop to the left (or right) of an infielder
who races over and tries to grab it. He drops it, then picks it
up and throws errantly to second. Runners are all safe and stand
at first and second. I would score this a fielder's choice, runner
safe at second on the throwing error. The drop of the pop is not
necessarily an error, because following it, the fielder still had
a chance to throw out the runner or the batter.
1B) Batter hits a pop fly into the shallow outfield and the infielder
back-pedals to make the play, but drops the pop. Picking it up,
he throws errantly to second and everyone is safe. I would score
this batter safe on the dropped pop fly error, runner advancing
to second.
The first case is more reasonable, and one could score the second
example that way too, but it would be peculiar. The whole situation is
different, however, if the runner going to second continues on to
third. In that case, the scorer must account for why the runner
is on third and could rule a second error on the play. In that case,
the more likely scoring would be batter safe on dropped fly error,
runner moves to second and moves on to third on the throwing error.
The way the situation was posed, however, the runner did not advance,
and the scorer does not need to assess a second error.
The second case proposed is more clear-cut. On the potential 5-4-3
double play with the 1st baseman pulled off the bag, or missing
the bag (or tag) no error would ever be assessed. You can never
presume the double play, so this would simply be scored a fielder's
choice 5-4. A thorough manager, however, would assess the first
baseman with a mental error and probably watch him closely the next
day during infield drills.
You asked for no guesses or opinions, which is difficult, as scoring
gets pretty subjective sometimes. I invite further discussion of
either case though.
Jim Grams
cbosgd!jcgdavid@fisher.UUCP (David Rubin) (06/29/85)
> 1. Runner on 1st, nobody out. Batter hits a pop fly to infielder A, who > drops it for an error. Then, trying for the [easy] force at 2nd, he > throws the ball into the outfield, leaving runners on 1st and 2nd. > Does infielder A get one error, or two? Why? Since guesses are forbidden, I won't... > 2. Runner on 1st, nobody out. Batter hits a one-hopper to 3rd, who forces > runner at 2nd. 2nd basemen makes good relay to 1st to beat batter by > 2 steps for the DP, but 1st basemen pulls foot off base too early -- > batter is safe. Does 1st baseman get an error? Why? This one I know the answer to. The first baseman is not charged with an error, as the official scorer may not presume the completion of any double play, and the first baseman's mishap did not allow the advance of any runner. David Rubin
mcal@ihuxb.UUCP (Mike Clifford) (07/01/85)
> > 1. Runner on 1st, nobody out. Batter hits a pop fly to infielder A, who > drops it for an error. Then, trying for the [easy] force at 2nd, he > throws the ball into the outfield, leaving runners on 1st and 2nd. > Does infielder A get one error, or two? Why? > 2. Runner on 1st, nobody out. Batter hits a one-hopper to 3rd, who forces > runner at 2nd. 2nd basemen makes good relay to 1st to beat batter by > 2 steps for the DP, but 1st basemen pulls foot off base too early -- > batter is safe. Does 1st baseman get an error? Why? There is no error because an out was made during the play. Mike Clifford > No opinions/guesses, please. If there is an official scorer's handbook, > how about specific references. > Bob Milosavljevic > ...ihnp4!inmet!milos