evan@petfe.UUCP (Evan Marcus) (06/28/85)
I was watching yesterday (June 26)'s Mets-Cubs game, where the Cubs won 7-3,
and Gary Carter came within 5 feet of hitting for the cycle. Unfortunately
the 5 feet was how much he was out by trying to stretch a single into a
double (what he needed to complete it) in the 9th inning.
He was going out on a limb trying for that double, and he never should have,
but I think he wanted to hit for the cycle! He was (since he was out so easily)
putting his own interests first, and when he was out, it looked awful.
The 2 questions I put forth for discussion are: was it (in your opinion) self-
serving? and is there any time in a game when it's ok to serve one's own
interests instead of the team's?
I have an odd opinion of Carter. I think it's hard to dispute his playing
abilities. He is undisputably one of the best catchers in baseball. (Anyone
really want to argue that?) But (and I am an avid Mets fan!), I don't like
him. This grandstanding fits perfectly the image of Carter I have been pieceing
together all season. He talks (too) sincerely about the team's interests, and
all, but I somehow don't believe him. He smiles too much. Nobody is that
happy (not even a guy getting $1 million for playing a kid's game that he's
great at)! Before this incident I didn't feel really justified in that
distrust, it was just a gut feeling. But now, I can justify it.
When the game ended, there were 2 on. If Carter had been content with a
single, Heep would have batted with 1 out and bases loaded (if I recall
right). They just might have pulled it out. Maybe not, but now we'll
never know.
Anyway, here are 3 new discussions for the newsgroup that aren't trivia or
rules questions, and are more of a purist's kind of discussion. Have a good
time!
--Evan Marcus
--
{ucbvax|decvax}!vax135!petsd!petfe!evan
...!pedsgd!pedsga!evan
If this is foreplay, I'm a dead man.ewf@ihu1m.UUCP (Gene Foster) (06/28/85)
> I was watching yesterday (June 26)'s Mets-Cubs game, where the Cubs won 7-3, > and Gary Carter came within 5 feet of hitting for the cycle. Unfortunately > the 5 feet was how much he was out by trying to stretch a single into a > double (what he needed to complete it) in the 9th inning. > > He was going out on a limb trying for that double, and he never should have, > but I think he wanted to hit for the cycle! He was (since he was out so easily) > putting his own interests first, and when he was out, it looked awful. > > The 2 questions I put forth for discussion are: was it (in your opinion) self- > serving? and is there any time in a game when it's ok to serve one's own > interests instead of the team's? > > I have an odd opinion of Carter. I think it's hard to dispute his playing > abilities. He is undisputably one of the best catchers in baseball. (Anyone > really want to argue that?) But (and I am an avid Mets fan!), I don't like > him. This grandstanding fits perfectly the image of Carter I have been pieceing > together all season. He talks (too) sincerely about the team's interests, and > all, but I somehow don't believe him. He smiles too much. Nobody is that > happy (not even a guy getting $1 million for playing a kid's game that he's > great at)! Before this incident I didn't feel really justified in that > distrust, it was just a gut feeling. But now, I can justify it. > > When the game ended, there were 2 on. If Carter had been content with a > single, Heep would have batted with 1 out and bases loaded (if I recall > right). They just might have pulled it out. Maybe not, but now we'll > never know. > > Anyway, here are 3 new discussions for the newsgroup that aren't trivia or > rules questions, and are more of a purist's kind of discussion. Have a good > time! > > --Evan Marcus > -- > {ucbvax|decvax}!vax135!petsd!petfe!evan > ...!pedsgd!pedsga!evan > > If this is foreplay, I'm a dead man. *** REPLACE THIS LINE WITH YOUR MESSAGE *** In fact, Keith Hernandez of the Mets also shares your feelings. Hernandez and Carter never have got along. Keith was quite upset when Carter was obtained by the Mets. He has for years now stated that any team with Gary Carter on its roster, could never be a winner. gene foster ihu1m!ewf
mcal@ihuxb.UUCP (Mike Clifford) (06/28/85)
> I was watching yesterday (June 26)'s Mets-Cubs game, where the Cubs won 7-3, > and Gary Carter came within 5 feet of hitting for the cycle. Unfortunately > the 5 feet was how much he was out by trying to stretch a single into a > double (what he needed to complete it) in the 9th inning. > He was going out on a limb trying for that double, and he never should have, > but I think he wanted to hit for the cycle! He was (since he was out so easil > y) putting his own interests first, and when he was out, it looked awful. > The 2 questions I put forth for discussion are: was it (in your opinion) self > -serving? and is there any time in a game when it's ok to serve one's own > interests instead of the team's? > I have an odd opinion of Carter. I think it's hard to dispute his playing > abilities. He is undisputably one of the best catchers in baseball. (Anyone > really want to argue that?) But (and I am an avid Mets fan!), I don't like > him. This grandstanding fits perfectly the image of Carter I have been piecei > ng together all season. He talks (too) sincerely about the team's interests, > and all, but I somehow don't believe him. He smiles too much. Nobody is tha > t happy (not even a guy getting $1 million for playing a kid's game that he's > great at)! Before this incident I didn't feel really justified in that > distrust, it was just a gut feeling. But now, I can justify it. > When the game ended, there were 2 on. If Carter had been content with a > single, Heep would have batted with 1 out and bases loaded (if I recall > right). They just might have pulled it out. Maybe not, but now we'll > never know. > --Evan Marcus > -- > {ucbvax|decvax}!vax135!petsd!petfe!evan > ...!pedsgd!pedsga!evan I was at Wrigley Field (to see the historic loss :-)) Wednesday and witnessed Gary Carter's one-man wrecking crew at work. He is quite a ball player! Since he's a Mets player, I don't see him in TV interviews or in the papers. It seems I do see him in the 10:00 sports highlights, at least once a week he's hitting the game-winning HR for the Mets! About the play at second...he was out by a mile. Sandberg had the throw from Billy Hatcher and was waiting and waiting for Carter to come sliding in. But I think Carter had the right idea going for two off of a hit like that. He hit a shot into the gap in left-center, and like Dave Winfield ("whenever I hit a ball into the outfield, I'm thinking two bases" (loosely quoted)) he was headed for second base. The breaks went against him. The ball caromed off the wall cleanly, and straight into the hands of Hatcher. The rookie (only his 2nd game in the pros, just called up from AAA Iowa) makes a perfect throw to Sandberg and Carter is history (YEA!). If the carom is bad or the ball stays in the ivy or Hatcher fumbles the ball or botches the throw Carter is safe on 2nd and hits for the cycle. Go CUBS! Mike Clifford
david@fisher.UUCP (David Rubin) (06/29/85)
>I have an odd opinion of Carter. I think it's hard to dispute his playing >abilities. He is undisputably one of the best catchers in baseball. (Anyone >really want to argue that?) But (and I am an avid Mets fan!), I don't like >him. This grandstanding fits perfectly the image of Carter I have been piecing >together all season. He talks (too) sincerely about the team's interests, and >all, but I somehow don't believe him. He smiles too much. Nobody is that >happy (not even a guy getting $1 million for playing a kid's game that he's >great at)! Before this incident I didn't feel really justified in that >distrust, it was just a gut feeling. But now, I can justify it. Sounds like all the raps that Garvey took unfairly. Perhaps if you realized that Carter gets 1.8 million a year, instead of a relatively piddling 1 million a year, you would THEN grant that he might be that happy with his career. If we're going to have to choose between our players having the attitude of a Carter or Garvey on the one hand, and a Kingman (especially when required to field) or a Wiggins (baseball makes my life miserable), I know which we are going to choose. So until a PATTERN emerges, I will presume the incident to which you referred as a rare mistake in judgment. David Rubin
radio@spuxll.UUCP (Rick Farina) (07/01/85)
Well, I guess it was inevitable. The Mets hit an inevitable slump, and people start wondering alound about Gary Carter. This is especially remarkable in light of the fact that Carter has been one of the few Mets this season who has consistently produced in a manner befitting a winning professional baseball player. But I guess there have always been the expectations. Expectations unfulfilled at Montreal -- witness the bitter departing remarks by Dawson and Raines (who, I guess, were only along for the ride!). So Hernandez doesn't get along with Carter. Is this Keith's excuse for hitting .250 this year?? Whatever, it is no excuse for the Mets not winning: Reggie Jackson and Thurman Munson despised each other, all the way to two World Series Championships. And Carter is producing, Hernandez is not. Even if the Mets never win a pennant with Gary Carter, it is infinitely more entertaining watching him play than any other catcher in baseball right now (including Mike Fitzgerald). And that, friends, is what it's all about.
david@fisher.UUCP (David Rubin) (07/06/85)
> In fact, Keith Hernandez of the Mets also shares your feelings. > Hernandez and Carter never have got along. Keith was quite upset > when Carter was obtained by the Mets. He has for years now stated > that any team with Gary Carter on its roster, could never be a winner. > > gene foster > ihu1m!ewf I find it difficult to believe such a quote exists, as it certainly would be common knowledge if it did. Moreover, I heard SPECULATION that their might be friction between Carter and Hernandez over the role of team leader, but never have I heard any statement or a report of a statement from Hernandez that indicated thought the acquisition of Carter was a mistake. Sources, Gene? David Rubin {allegra|astrovax|princeton}!fisher!david