mahanti@pluto.UUCP (Dr. Mahanti) (01/06/86)
All you real Met fans out there, how many of you admire Jesse Orosco? Every Met fan I ask about Jesse tells me, "Oh that guy, he's the worst. He stinks. Trade him, etc, etc, etc." Give me a break. Did anybody write off Bruce Sutter after his horendous season last year? No. Has anybody even mentioned that Dave Righetti didn't have quite such a good year? Jesse Orosco was third in the Cy-Young voting in '83 and had a club record 33 saves in '84. His season wasn't all that good this year but he did have some arm problems. His stats weren't all that bad though. Every body remembers the few games he blew, but does anybody remember whem he came in (for Roger McDowell) with the bases loaded and he got out without giving up a run? Give the guy a chance. If he screws up next season then you have an argument but god, give him a break. No one's perfect!
dpb@philabs.UUCP (Paul Benjamin) (01/07/86)
> All you real Met fans out there, how many of you admire Jesse Orosco? > Every Met fan I ask about Jesse tells me, "Oh that guy, he's the worst. > He stinks. Trade him, etc, etc, etc." Give me a break. Did anybody > write off Bruce Sutter after his horendous season last year? No. Has > anybody even mentioned that Dave Righetti didn't have quite such a > good year? Jesse Orosco was third in the Cy-Young voting in '83 and > had a club record 33 saves in '84. His season wasn't all that good > this year but he did have some arm problems. His stats weren't all > that bad though. Every body remembers the few games he blew, but does > anybody remember whem he came in (for Roger McDowell) with the bases > loaded and he got out without giving up a run? Give the guy a chance. > If he screws up next season then you have an argument but god, give > him a break. No one's perfect! I agree. I remember reading that you should never count on a reliever to have two good years in a row. Sometimes they do, but all too often a good year is followed by a so-so year. The fault was not with Orosco, but with the lack of depth in the bullpen. Look at LA. They just traded for more bullpen depth, when they already have a lot of pitching strength. They know better than to count on last year's pitchers repeating their performances. Apparently the Mets have learned, too, since they picked up Ojeda.
flynn@acf2.UUCP (Susan Flynn) (01/07/86)
Jesse "load the bases" Orosco got out that bases loaded situation because he's had so much practice at it. Granted he often pitched his way out of bases loaded situations but not without taking several years off of my life. If you watched Mets game last season with any consistency you would have a hard time forgiving him for all those ninth inning homers. He may have performed well in the past, but it comes down to "What has he done lately?". I don't blame the Cards for trading Andujar after winning 20 games for them for just the same reason.
mykes@3comvax.UUCP (Mike Schwartz) (01/07/86)
Orosco is not bad, just not (in my opinion) the stopper that the Mets say he is. He certainly is no Bruce Sutter (who may be washed up, as he demonstrated last year), or Dave Righetti (an outstanding starter and consistent - so far - great reliever). If Orosco has a real good season next year, people will probably have a higher opinion of him. But realistically, the only NL teams that I can think of who would use Orosco as their relief ACE are those without such a guy already. Orosco would be a setup man for teams like the Cubs (Lee Smith), LA (Niedenfuer), SD (the Goose), Atlanta (Sutter), etc. The Mets have done an outstanding job of turning themselves into winners. I don't think that they were as good in '84 as they were last year, but after playing way above their heads in '84, they made some dynamite trades (Carter for nothing, for example) and they are now consistent contenders. Some players seem to be winners everywhere they go, like Joe Morgan, and some seem to be losers, like Carter. Gary Carter is clearly the best all-around catcher in Baseball since Johnny Bench, but it seems like you can put him on a team of All-stars and that team would finish 2nd somehow. Good luck to the Mets, but I am a hopeless Cubs fan (I have seen 450 games on WGN over the last 3 years), and you can guess where my hopes lie. I do like all baseball teams, though, and I try to stay objective. /mykes
gates@bdmrrr.UUCP (Al Gates) (01/08/86)
> > All you real Met fans out there, how many of you admire Jesse Orosco? > > Every Met fan I ask about Jesse tells me, "Oh that guy, he's the worst. > > He stinks. Trade him, etc, etc, etc." Give me a break. > > I agree. I remember reading that you should never count on a reliever to > have two good years in a row. Sometimes they do, but all too often a > good year is followed by a so-so year. The fault was not with Orosco, > but with the lack of depth in the bullpen. If I had the oppurtunity to have such a 'bad' reliever on my team I'd jump at it! Orosco's stats were almost identical in 1984 and 1985 with the exception of the number of saves. If I recall, early in 1985, Orosco had a streak of many games of coming in to games with men on base and not allowing ANY of them to score. He is an outstanding reliever--note the word 'is'--his only problem in the second half of '85 was a sore elbow. He got shelled in the middle of the year, only to settle down and finish the season with excellent stats. I'll take a fireballing southpaw with his control and experience any day of the week. -- Al Gates BDM Corporation ^ ^ ^ ^ {seismo,rlgvax}!bdmrrr!gates 7915 Jones Branch Drive McLean, Virginia 22102
flynn@acf2.UUCP (Susan Flynn) (01/08/86)
I believe Orosco was paid ~$650,000 last year (not the $850,000 he asked for). Dwight Gooden was paid $250,000. The problem with the Mets is that they have a lot of young talent coming up that deserves to be paid. Paying Orosco (who just filed for arbitration by the way) that much money when he may have an "off" year is not in the best intrest of the club.
dimitrov@csd2.UUCP (Isaac Dimitrovsky) (01/08/86)
[]
> Dwight Gooden was paid $250,000.
Wasn't it closer to $400,000 when you add up the bonuses?
Anyway, on the original subject, I think if someone has an
off year during which he also had physical problems, I think
it's a little early to write him off (i.e. Jesse Orosco or
even Ray Knight). I think he has to be bad for another season
before you can definitively say that he's lost it (i.e. George
Foster).
Isaac Dimitrovsky
allegra!cmcl2!csd2!dimitrov (l in cmcl2 is letter l not number 1)
251 Mercer Street, New York NY 10012 (212) 674-8652
You know the great thing about tv? If something important happens anywhere at
all in the world, no matter what time of the day or night, you can always
change the channel - Jim Ignatowskiflynn@acf2.UUCP (Susan Flynn) (01/09/86)
Okay, before this turns into an NYU alumni brawl let's end this. After all we're all on the same side. It's not fair to count bonuses when they were based on performance. Orosco didn't perform. He claimed there was nothing wrong with his arm. If you were a ball club I would trade you Orosco if you would promise to take Foster with you. But I am willing to give him another chance. As Foster says "Let's get Metsmerized"
citrin@ucbvax.BERKELEY.EDU (Wayne Citrin) (01/11/86)
Why are you worrying about Orosco when the man you should really be worried about is Doug Sisk? I mean, I can feel for him with what he must be going through, but even so, give him a seven run lead and I still get nervous. Wayne Citrin (ucbvax!citrin)