eugene@ames.UUCP (Eugene Miya) (11/20/84)
I realize that lots of novice Unix system administrators read this
group, but here goes...
Several people were having a discussion in my office the other day. Two
were from IBM/CDC backgrounds and were new to Unix. Both were in some
positions of `authority.' One stated that with all of our VAXen, workstations
and other big UNIX systems that we should all `standardize' on System 5.
e.g. there should be one favor of UNIX. With all these UNIXes around, how
were users going to be helped with more than one favor of UNIX around
(currently our users need to know VMS (for most VAXen), COS- for our Crays,
and with they are learning UNIX for Irises). Another person in the room
felt under attack. The VAXen are running 4.2. He and others argued that
the different `dialects' of UNIX didn't matter that much and that the
differences between 4.2 and SV are smaller than VMS to COS for instance.
My observation is that this is perhaps a left over attitude from the days
of the card punch/centralized computer facility. They desire control
over everything. It doesn't matter that the erase character can
be changed between Backspce or Delete, just make them the same. Don't
give the user the choice of vi or emacs, standardize so we have to maintain
less.
Any ideas for defending our bastion of 4.2 from the hordes of the SV bastion?
We have tried the obvious "different and better tools." This works only
so far.
--eugene miya
NASA Ames Res. Ctr.
{hplabs,ihnp4,dual,hao,vortex}!ames!aurora!eugene
emiya@ames-vmsb.ARPAgwyn@brl-tgr.ARPA (Doug Gwyn <gwyn>) (11/20/84)
> Any ideas for defending our bastion of 4.2 from the hordes of the SV bastion? > We have tried the obvious "different and better tools." This works only > so far. Different, yes. Seriously, there are strong economic arguments for users and applications using a single flavor of UNIX. The two main candidates with a future are 4.2BSD and UNIX System V. Since many UNIX-based systems will be UNIX System V implementations, and since it is virtually impossible to support applications that make essential use of 4.2BSD-specific features on UNIX System V, whereas the opposite direction is much more feasible, a logical "standard" UNIX environment would be based on UNIX System V. However, this does NOT mean that you have to abandon 4.2BSD! At BRL, at least one Division has followed the above economic reasoning and standardized on a UNIX System V environment, but NONE of our UNIX systems are actually UNIX System V. Instead, the user-mode environment has been provided as a "separate but equal" layer ON TOP of the existing facilities (4.2BSD in the case of VAX & Gould systems). This works rather well and has proven sufficiently popular that some 60 other sites have picked up the package. So, as a fallback position, you might try to talk your management into permitting both real UNIX System V and 4.2BSD with the BRL UNIX System V overlay, depending on what kernels are available for the hardware systems. That way you could splash around contentedly in your 4.2BSD pool while the official types live in their UNIX System V environment. Package details available from: gwyn@brl-vld.arpa decvax!brl-bmd!gwyn
rcd@opus.UUCP (Dick Dunn) (11/28/84)
> ... They desire control > over everything. It doesn't matter that the erase character can > be changed between Backspce or Delete, just make them the same. Don't > give the user the choice of vi or emacs, standardize so we have to maintain > less. > > Any ideas for defending our bastion of 4.2 from the hordes of the SV bastion? > We have tried the obvious "different and better tools." This works only > so far. Offer them COBOL and MVS on an IBM mainframe. That's clearly about as "standard" and "conventional" as you can get--and clearly COBOL is as powerful as any language, in some theoretical sense. If they balk at that, you've got a foot in the door; your position is only a matter of degree. If they DON'T balk at that, you're in trouble! -- Dick Dunn {hao,ucbvax,allegra}!nbires!rcd (303)444-5710 x3086 ...Reality? Gad, that's worse than puberty!