jdg@pthya.UUCP (b0ce Jim Gregory) (02/07/85)
I am currently working on a project that will be running INGRES on a Berkeley release of UNIX. In the past, my work has basically been with Bell System UNIX releases. Can anyone point me towards any type of documentation that will clarify the differences between Berkeley and AT&T versions of UNIX??? ** Also, I have heard that Berkeley is developing, or has developed a UNIX release that emulates AT&T System V. Is this true?? Thanks very much. -- Jim Gregory pthya!jdg {ihnp4,ucbvax,cbosgd,decwrl,amd,fortune,zehntel}!dual!pthya!jdg Pacific Bell, Hayward, California
Doug Gwyn (VLD/VMB) <gwyn@Brl-Vld.ARPA> (02/12/85)
I doubt that "Berkeley is developing a UNIX release that emulates UNIX System V". This is perhaps a garbled rendition of the following true fact: "There is an emulation of UNIX System V that runs on 4.2BSD." That emulation was done (by me) at BRL and made freely available to sites having the appropriate licenses. There has been some talk about distributing the emulation along with 4.nBSD (for some n > 2) as "user-contributed software". At least one major computer vendor has similar plans. This is fine with me, since after sending out ~100 tapes I am eager for someone else to do the distribution. If anyone is seriously interested in doing this, I would hope that they pick up the most recent distribution, as there have been continual improvements. ENTER "SOAP BOX" MODE: It is apparent to me that, like it or not, the UNIX System V environment is well on its way to becoming the standard for applications software. Evidence for this is abundant; for example, there are three separate published standards documents (well okay, the ANSI C effort is not yet a published standard) modeled very closely on the UNIX System V system interface. As an applications designer I applaud this development. However, one consequence is that as time goes on it becomes increasingly important to provide this system interface on other (e.g., 4.nBSD-based) systems. I have found an expedient way to do this given that native facilities have to be used unaltered. Vendors with more control over the native system (e.g., Pyramid) have chosen other methods for accomplishing the same goal. I have yet to see a system fully follow the existing specs (not even UNIX System V itself quite does this), but several come very close. gwyn@brl.ARPA decvax!brl-bmd!gwyn
scherrer@mtxinu.UUCP (Deborah Scherrer) (02/13/85)
> Can anyone point me towards any type of documentation that > will clarify the differences between Berkeley and AT&T > versions of UNIX??? There is a paper by John Chambers and John Quarterman titled ``UNIX System V and 4.1C BSD'' which compares the two systems. The paper was given at the Toronto USENIX Conference and also appears in the Toronto proceedings. (THe Proceedings are purchasable from the USENIX Office.) At one time the paper was also online at decvax, seismo, ut-ngp, and ut-sally for copying with uucp, as ~uucp/compare (a description) and ~uucp/compare.[123] (the paper, 15 pages per file). It was also available over the ARPANET from utexas-11 as ~ftp/compare.doc (login ftp, password guest, retrieve ./compare.doc). At one time Quarterman and Chambers claimed "There will probably be a later version called ``UNIX System V and 4.2BSD'' when we get a 4.2 tape. That version will also contain revisions according to comments we received at USENIX and after; the present version does not, as we cannot work on it now but nonetheless wish to satisfy the numerous requests for copies." For further information: John Chambers John Quarterman ihnp4!ut-ngp!ut-sally!jbc ihnp4!ut-ngp!ut-sally!jsq jbc@utexas-11.ARPA jsq@utexas-11.ARPA 409-761-1813 512-454-2668
jsq@ut-sally.UUCP (John Quarterman) (02/14/85)
<Apologies for reposting this so soon after I posted it the other week. Evidently it was missed by some the first time, and this time it is being posted to net.usenix as well. I've put in a Followup-To: net.usenix.> Path: ut-sally!jbc From: jbc@ut-sally.UUCP (John B. Chambers) Newsgroups: net.unix Subject: Bell/Berkeley comparisons Message-ID: <3189@ut-sally.UUCP> Date: Fri, 24-Aug-84 10:56:49 CDT Date-Received: Fri, 24-Aug-84 10:56:49 CDT Organization: MCC, Austin, TX Lines: 79 To address several issues which continue to arise .... 1. We have presented two papers comparing "Bell UNIX" and "Berkeley UNIX": "UNIX System III and 4.1BSD, A Practical Comparison" (Winter 1983 USENIX Conference, San Diego) "UNIX System V and 4.1C BSD" (Summer 1983 USENIX Conference, Toronto) Contrary to popular rumor, we have presented nothing comparing: 4.1 BSD and 4.2 BSD System V and 4.1 BSD System V and 4.2 BSD System V Release 2 and anything The Toronto paper obliquely referenced the state of 4.2 BSD at that time. It does not necessarily correspond in all details to the actual system which was distributed some time later. 2. The paper "UNIX System V and 4.1C BSD" is marked (c) Copyright 1983 by the Regents of the University of Texas. solely in order to prevent its sale by anyone other than the USENIX Association. The paper may be distributed free of cost in any quantity, by any means and by any entity so long as the whole paper, in one of the forms originally distributed by us, including the copyright notice, is distributed. Properly attributed quotations in reviews and other papers are of course also permitted. The paper is available in the Proceedings of the Summer 1983 USENIX Conference, by anonymous FTP as compare.doc from ut-sally.ARPA, and by UUCP from ut-sally.UUCP and several other UUCP sites; it was also posted to net.sources on USENET. To use anonymous ftp, connect with ftp to ut-sally, login as anonymous, password guest, and get or retrieve compare.doc. The authors are no longer associated with utexas-11 (which is now known as ut-ngp, anyway), but principally with ut-sally (which happens to be the VAX-11/780 referred to in the paper). We would rather not have to mail out individual copies to everyone in the world. Get it from your neighbor if you can. If there is still demand we might post to net.sources again. 3. We feel that questions of comparative performance were adequately treated at the Salt Lake City USENIX Conference, particularly in: "UNIX System V and 4BSD Performance" Jeffrey P. Lankford, AT&T Bell Laboratories "Measuring and Improving the Performance of 4.2BSD" Sam Leffler (Lucasfilm, Ltd), Mike Karels, and M. Kirk McKusick (U.C. Berkeley) It is therefore not our intention at this time to distribute the results of any such studies which we ourselves may have conducted. ------------------------ Current addresses: John B. Chambers John S. Quarterman ARPANET/MILNET: jbc@ut-sally.ARPA jsq@ut-sally.ARPA CSNET: jbc@ut-sally jsq@ut-sally UUCP: ihnp4!ut-sally!jbc ihnp4!ut-sally!jsq USPS: MCC Department of Computer Sciences 9430 Research Blvd. University of Texas at Austin Echelon I, Suite 200 Austin, Texas 78712 Austin, TX 78759 ------------------------ UNIX is a trademark of Bell Telephone Laboratories, Inc. VAX is a trademark of Digital Equipment Corporation. -- John Quarterman, CS Dept., University of Texas, Austin, Texas 78712 USA jsq@ut-sally.ARPA, jsq@ut-sally.UUCP, {ihnp4,seismo,ctvax}!ut-sally!jsq
wombat@ccvaxa.UUCP (02/21/85)
/**** ccvaxa:net.unix / gwyn@brl-tgr / 12:12 am Feb 18, 1985 ****/ "There is an emulation of UNIX System V that runs on 4.2BSD." That emulation was done (by me) at BRL and made freely available to sites having the appropriate licenses. There has been some talk about distributing the emulation along with 4.nBSD (for some n > 2) as "user-contributed software". At least one major computer vendor has similar plans. gwyn@brl.ARPA decvax!brl-bmd!gwyn /* ---------- */ This emulation package is included in the user-contributed software tape distributed with the newest release of UTX/32 (1.1) for Gould's Concept 32 and PowerNode machines. The way UTX is set up, users already have access to many unique-to-System-V commands and library routines in the 4.2 environment (and some, like the uucp and nroff, are taken from System V rather than BSD), but the package makes it easier to mask out Berkeleyisms and guarantee portability. "When you are about to die, a wombat is better than no company at all." Roger Zelazney, *Doorways in the Sand* Wombat Gould Computer Systems Division - Urbana ihnp4!uiucdcs!ccvaxa!wombat