root@galon (Sys Op) (10/03/85)
This pertains more to some recent comments in the net.lang.c group but
is more applicable to unix in general.
In a 10/01/85 article in the Wall Street Journal, wherein they refered to
a new minisupercomputer by Massachusetts Computer Corp. entering the market
place, the next to last paragraph states that they are going to use a Unix
operating system.
The article then goes on to say that their main competition's customers,
that is Digital, only uses Unix about 10% of the time.
My query is more about Digital. Perhaps some of you knowledge guru's could
tell me:
1. What is the operating system(s) most often used by DEC?
2. Same question as above, but as it regards multi user systems.
3. Do the other systems offer the inter/intra communications
capabilities of a Unix system?
4. Is there a movement by DEC towards one particular operating
system over another (i.e) VMS ?
5. And more generally, is there a growth in the use of commercial
Unix, or is it still the 'baby' of the universities?
I would appreciate your comments as to how one part of the larger world
perceives the Unix community.
----
Pat Gallivan @ Postal : 7122 S. Fillmore, Littleton, CO 80122
Galon Exploration, Inc. Data: (303) 771-0258
UUCP: ..!hao{!nbires!isis}!galon!fmg
"[is] it [is] better to 'backup' then go forward."hes@ecsvax.UUCP (Henry Schaffer) (10/07/85)
> > My query is more about Digital. Perhaps some of you knowledge guru's could > tell me: > Not being a guru, but having attended DECWorld this a year ago-- (and always being willing to stick my neck out ...) so I'll try a few ... > 1. What is the operating system(s) most often used by DEC? > 2. Same question as above, but as it regards multi user systems. On VAXen - VMS (they said that ~10% ran UNIX -including ULTRIX) > 3. Do the other systems offer the inter/intra communications > capabilities of a Unix system? VMS ver 4.? + DECnet, gives a pretty complete powerful set of capabilities. > 4. Is there a movement by DEC towards one particular operating > system over another (i.e) VMS ? DEC considers VMS to be their standard operating system for the VAX, and ...er, we also support unix. > ---- > Pat Gallivan > Galon Exploration, Inc. Data: (303) 771-0258 > UUCP: ..!hao{!nbires!isis}!galon!fmg --henry schaffer
weltyrp@rpics.UUCP (Richard Welty) (10/11/85)
> > 1. What is the operating system(s) most often used by DEC? > 2. Same question as above, but as it regards multi user systems. > 3. Do the other systems offer the inter/intra communications > capabilities of a Unix system? > 4. Is there a movement by DEC towards one particular operating > system over another (i.e) VMS ? > 5. And more generally, is there a growth in the use of commercial > Unix, or is it still the 'baby' of the universities? > 1.&2. VMS is most common for vaxen. RSX-11, RT-11, and RSTS are all available for pdp-11s, and the choice is influenced by the application. TOPS-10 and TOPS-20 are available for pdp-10 type hardware. All of the above attempt to be multi-user except for RT-11 (unless something has changed since I last used it ...) All are distinguished by the fact that they were written by DEC (except for RSTS, I believe). 3. Some facilities are available, but they are often clumsy or slow. 4. DEC is pushing Vaxen, and thus VMS ... 5. There is an increasing recognition of UNIX in the industry. There are some very good economic reasons to bring up UNIX rather than write a new opsystem for a new machine. The company I work for is considering porting some of our VMS-C software to an Apollo-Domain system. We asked one of our potential customers for such a port whether they prefered a native mode port to Apollo's AEGIS system or a port to Apollo's UNIX enviroment, and there was an extremely strong pro-UNIX reaction, despite the fact that the particular customer is not currently a heavy UNIX user. The extent of the developing UNIX steamroller becomes clear when you consider the fact that IBM has broken down and started to admit that UNIX exists. -- Rich Welty (I am both a part-time grad student at RPI and a full-time employee of a local CAE firm, and opinions expressed herein have nothing to do with anything at all) CSNet: weltyrp@rpi ArpaNet: weltyrp.rpi@csnet-relay UUCP: seismo!rpics!weltyrp
campbell@maynard.UUCP (Larry Campbell) (10/12/85)
Both the original questions and the "answers" here require correction: > > 1. What is the operating system(s) most often used by DEC? Do you mean "used by DEC internally" or "used by DEC customers"? And by "most often" do you mean "dollars spent", "users logged in", "cycles burned", "licenses sold", "keystrokes typed", "terminals connected"? The question as posed is meaningless. > > 2. Same question as above, but as it regards multi user systems. Meaningless again (and, aren't all *real* operating systems multi-user?). > > 3. Do the other systems offer the inter/intra communications > > capabilities of a Unix system? Another meaningless question. What Unix are you talking about? V7? BSD 2.9? BSD 4.2? Sys V? What communications facilities? Pipes? Sockets? Streams? Classic Unix (V6/V7) is actually very weak in this area. > > 4. Is there a movement by DEC towards one particular operating > > system over another (i.e) VMS ? Absolutely. DEC has essentially (and publicly) said "VMS is it, everyone else out of the pool". > > 5. And more generally, is there a growth in the use of commercial > > Unix, or is it still the 'baby' of the universities? > > Pat Gallivan @ Postal : 7122 S. Fillmore, Littleton, CO 80122 > > Galon Exploration, Inc. Data: (303) 771-0258 > > UUCP: ..!hao{!nbires!isis}!galon!fmg The number I keep hearing is that about 10% of all VAXes run Unix; the rest run VMS. I don't know what the percentage is for PDP-11s but I suspect it's similar. The percentage seems to be growing but only very slowly. > 1.&2. > VMS is most common for vaxen. True. > RSX-11, RT-11, and RSTS are all available for pdp-11s, and the > choice is influenced by the application. There's also IAS and P/OS, which are essentially RSX variants. And in terms of number of licenses, CP/M and MS-DOS (for the Rainbow) represent a significant chunk of DEC's business. > TOPS-10 and TOPS-20 are available for pdp-10 type hardware. > All of the above attempt to be multi-user except for RT-11 (unless > something has changed since I last used it ...) > All are distinguished by the fact that they were written by DEC > (except for RSTS, I believe). Wrong. RSTS *was* developed by DEC, but TOPS-20 *wasn't*. TOPS-20 started life as TENEX, written by Bolt Beranek and Newman (BBN). DEC bought the rights, added lots of useful features and made it reliable. > 3. Some facilities are available, but they are often clumsy or slow. Half true. Most of DEC's operating systems are weak in networks, but VMS actually does quite well in this area (and I'm no fan of VMS!). VMS gives true transparent remote file access to users and programs, which is something no Unix I've seen does (perhaps Sun's NFS does this but I've yet to see it in action). UUCP is incredibly clumsy and doesn't really qualify as networking, in my opinion. > 4. DEC is pushing Vaxen, and thus VMS ... Yes. > 5. There is an increasing recognition of UNIX in the industry. There are > some very good economic reasons to bring up UNIX rather than write a new > opsystem for a new machine. ... > Rich Welty > CSNet: weltyrp@rpi > ArpaNet: weltyrp.rpi@csnet-relay > UUCP: seismo!rpics!weltyrp DEC supports Unix because many customers demand it. DEC's support for Unix was at first grudging but now appears to be growing more genuine. It is obviously in DEC's interest to favor VMS, but if you really want Unix you can get it (with support) from DEC.
gwyn@brl-tgr.ARPA (Doug Gwyn <gwyn>) (10/13/85)
There are a couple of factors to take under consideration when comparing number of VMS sites vs. number of UNIX sites (VAX sites only). One factor is, many VAX UNIX sites license a binary VMS just so they can run diagnostics, install microcode patches, or other things better done under VMS. The last place I worked got a VMS license for these very reasons. So, if one takes the total number of VAXes and subtracts the total number of VMS licenses, he will severely underestimate the number of UNIX VAXes. I don't know of any other way to determine this number.. (A few years ago, I heard estimates as high as 50%!) Another factor is, many places bought other vendors' equipment to run UNIX rather than DEC's, because DEC has not been cost-effective in the last several years (this situation might be better with the recent VAX products). Obviously, places that are locked into VMS have no choice but to expand by buying more VAXes running VMS; UNIX users are in a much better position. I don't think that the "VMS vs. UNIX" question is a very useful one.