[net.unix] venix versus xenix

hart@cp1.UUCP (Rod Hart) (01/18/86)

	I am getting ready to purchase a pc version of Unix and would
to like to know which is the best between xenix and venix. Has anyone
had experience with both and can make a recommendation. Compatibility
with Sys V is important. Thanks!
-- 


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campbell@maynard.UUCP (Larry Campbell) (01/20/86)

> 	I am getting ready to purchase a pc version of Unix and would
> to like to know which is the best between xenix and venix. Has anyone
> had experience with both and can make a recommendation. Compatibility
> with Sys V is important. Thanks!
> -- 
> Signed by: 
>   aplvax!cp1!hart - aplcen!cp1!hart - umcp-cs!cp1!hart - gamma!cp1!hart
>   umcp-cs!aplvax!cp1!hart@SEISMO.CSS.GOV

I have used VENIX v2.0 (V7-based) a lot, VENIX 5.0 a little (Sys V
based), and XENIX 3.0 (Sys III based) a little.  The choice would not
be clear cut, except for one thing.  It's IMPOSSIBLE to find anything
in the XENIX manuals because they're unbundled.  That means there are
three different, separately priced packages, and their manuals are
sold separately.  No more just looking commands up alphabetically in
Volume 1, system calls in Volume 2, etc.  You have to guess which doc
set the thing is in.  Quick: is 'sed' in the kernel kit, the
programmer's kit, or the text processing kit?  How about 'awk'?  What
about 'csh'?  I have nearly heaved my XENIX manuals against the wall
on several occasions because of this brain damage.

VENIX 5.0 is also unbundled (which is good because it reduces the entry
price), but the manuals are not.  When you buy the kernel kit, you get
the complete manual set, in order, the way you like it.  Some programs
you won't have, unless you bought all three kits.  But at least you
can find things in the manual.

Documentation aside, they're very similar.  The XENIX C compiler is
somewhat better -- VENIX's allows only one 64K data segment (but
unlimited code).  Last I looked, VENIX didn't come with troff (nroff
only) while XENIX did.  VENIX has some real-time features (preemptive
process priorities) you might find useful.  And the installation
procedure for VENIX is much easier than for XENIX.

Basically it's a wash, but if you want to have usable manuals, get VENIX.
-- 
Larry Campbell                                 The Boston Software Works, Inc.
ARPA: maynard.UUCP:campbell@harvard.ARPA       120 Fulton Street
UUCP: {harvard,cbosgd}!wjh12!maynard!campbell  Boston MA 02109

rich@rexago1.UUCP (K. Richard Magill) (01/22/86)

In article <209@maynard.UUCP> campbell@maynard.UUCP (Larry Campbell) writes:
>> 	I am getting ready to purchase a pc version of Unix...

>be clear cut, except for one thing.  It's IMPOSSIBLE to find anything
>in the XENIX manuals because they're unbundled.  That means there are
>three different, separately priced packages, and their manuals are
>sold separately.  No more just looking commands up alphabetically in
>Volume 1, system calls in Volume 2, etc.  You have to guess which doc
>set the thing is in.

I got news for somebody...
Our SV manuals come in N parts.  Not just 3.  I've screamed & b****ed bout
this many times.  Agreed they come loose leaf but I'm a consultant brought
in after the fact & if I re-arranged manuals somebody else would scream.

Every time I think I know where they all are I find there are really N + 1
parts.  Thus far I've found:

Core Pack
Software Generation Software
Extended Utilities
Basic Networking
Extended Software Generation
Printer Spooling

This is for a 3b2/300 & there is also information in tutorial style doc
that isn't covered in the man pages.

K. Richard Magill

BTW, *I*S* there a man page for cc, at, or sdb?

caf@omen.UUCP (Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX) (01/23/86)

In article <209@maynard.UUCP> campbell@maynard.UUCP (Larry Campbell) writes:
>> 	I am getting ready to purchase a pc version of Unix and would
>> to like to know which is the best between xenix and venix. Has anyone
>> had experience with both and can make a recommendation. Compatibility
>> with Sys V is important. Thanks!
>> -- 
>> Signed by: 
>>   aplvax!cp1!hart - aplcen!cp1!hart - umcp-cs!cp1!hart - gamma!cp1!hart
>>   umcp-cs!aplvax!cp1!hart@SEISMO.CSS.GOV
>
>I have used VENIX v2.0 (V7-based) a lot, VENIX 5.0 a little (Sys V
>based), and XENIX 3.0 (Sys III based) a little.  The choice would not
>be clear cut, except for one thing.  It's IMPOSSIBLE to find anything
>in the XENIX manuals because they're unbundled.  That means there are
	SCO SYS V Xenix has the manuals arranged the same way, but
	the man pages do not print different programs on one sheet,
	so they could be rearranged / added to / etc.  I don't like
	the Microsoft arrangement, but I've gotten used to it.
>
>Documentation aside, they're very similar.  The XENIX C compiler is
>somewhat better -- VENIX's allows only one 64K data segment (but
>unlimited code).  Last I looked, VENIX didn't come with troff (nroff
>only) while XENIX did.  VENIX has some real-time features (preemptive
>process priorities) you might find useful.  And the installation
>procedure for VENIX is much easier than for XENIX.
>
>Basically it's a wash, but if you want to have usable manuals, get VENIX.
	Not having a true blue SYS V Unix, I can't comment on the
	extent of compatibility.  I have heard that some tests in 
	the AT&T SYS V Suite cannot be run on 16 bitters hostile to
	Unix, which includes the 80286.

	Large/huge model is still rather buggy, but it is often possible
	to get a particular program to run given sufficient hacking
	time to outwit the Microsoft Cmerge compiler.  There is a possibility
	the large/huge model will be corrected before the 286 it totally
	obsolete.

	The main thing missing from SYS III/V are graphics and the ability
	to specify an arbitrary program instead of getty.

	The Xenix installation is quite straightforward.  There are
	options to control which sub-packages to install, which
	makes life easier on 20 meg systems.  Installation of the
	IBM Xenix was easy also.

	Bottom line: Xenix does work on the AT.  Is doesn't have anything
	to do with IBM's description of the AT as a "4 gigabyte virtual
	memory" system, but it is an improvement on PDP-11's assuming
	one doesn't need graphics or PDP-11 specific software.

-- 
   Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX  ...!tektronix!reed!omen!caf   CIS:70715,131
   Author of Professional-YAM communications Tools for PCDOS and Unix
 Omen Technology Inc     17505-V NW Sauvie Island Road Portland OR 97231
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davidsen@steinmetz.UUCP (Davidsen) (01/27/86)

In article <1135@cp1.UUCP> hart@cp1.UUCP (Rod Hart) writes:
>
>	I am getting ready to purchase a pc version of Unix and would
>to like to know which is the best between xenix and venix. Has anyone
>had experience with both and can make a recommendation. Compatibility
>with Sys V is important. Thanks!
>-- 

I have not used venix (the lack of troff ended consideration at our site)
but have used SCO XENIX SysV.2, and find it to be compatible with the SysV
on the VAX, Cray2 (yes I have used one) and 3B2. The C compiler is not
pcc, but rather a variant which knows about small, medium, and large
models, as well as huge (linear address space) model on 286 version only.

The C compiler and word processing are unbundled, leading to a reduced
price if you don't really need the whole thing. So far we have given this
to five users having varying levels of skill, and all have been happy. For
fancy configuration a guru is helpful, but the average user will be fine.
Everybody thought the manuals were better than the VAX manuals,
particularly the word processing manuals. The manuals are unbundled, too,
which helps our word processing types but means an occational extra lookup
for the heavy UNIX types.

Avoid at all costs the IBM version of XENIX (SysIII), which has many
"learning experiences" missing in the SCO version. The SCO hotline is fair
on response time, very good on finally getting to someone who knows the
answer (and they do call you back).

NOTE: (1) this is not a comment on the relative or absolute value of
venix, (2) although I evaluated XENIX for my company and submitted these
same finding, these opinions have not been officially adopted by my
company as yet.
-- 
	-bill davidsen

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