lj@ewj01.UUCP (Leonard Jacobs) (05/12/86)
Mid-April I posted the following: >Is there anyone using the OS pick who would like to share their experiences? >Does anyone know whether unix and pick can be set up on the same disk? > >Any other comments re pick would be appreciated. Please respond directly >and I will summarize. I only received these responses, but thought someone might be interested. --------------------response #1---------------------------------------------- From uubbn Wed Apr 23 16:16:11 1986 >From ptsfa.uucp!jmc Wed Apr 23 11:36:02 1986 remote from bbnccv Subject: Re: pick and unix Newsgroups: net.unix,net.database Organization: Pacific * Bell, San Francisco AT&T signed a deal to have a Pick look alike running on top of UNIX but Dick Pick (as is typical with him) sued VMARK (the author of the look alike (called UniVerse I think)) for stealing the Pick OS. Other that that and some rumors about Pick porting his OS to UNIX, no one has combined the two. Both might be able to be on a disk, but I'm not sure how you would switch between them. It would probably take some fancy work (unless it is an MS-DOS machine which is set up for alternate partitions and you have an MS-DOS, a Pick and a UNIX partition. I hope this helps. --- voice= 415 823-2441 uucp={ihnp4,dual,qantel}!ptsfa!jmc -------------------response #2------------------------------------------ >From cyb-eng.uucp!topher Sat Apr 19 00:38:33 1986 remote from bbnccv Subject: Re: pick and unix Below is an excerpt from a letter about the Revelation data base under UNIX that I thought you would find interesting: I'm going to go ahead and send you the 3 comments I've gotten on Revelation. I suspect this is all there will be, which is a signal to me that it's not being used very much. Hope these help. -- Libby Evans UNC-CH Dept of Psychiatry Chapel Hill, NC uevans@ecsvax.UUCP ================================================== >From akgua!gatech!itm!somewhere!brent@ulysses Mon Mar 31 10:54:22 1986 Revelation is basically an implimentation of the PICK operating system that runs under DOS. Yes, it can handle variable length fields, repeating fields, etc. PICK was designed as a business operating system built around a database. It is programmed with a BASIC-like language. For more information, see such books as "An Introduction to the PICK Operating System" or any similar books. Revelation will be almost exactly the same. Brent Laminack (gatech!itm!brent) >From ihnp4!ptsfa!jmc@ulysses Mon Mar 31 17:49:34 1986 Revelation is an offshoot of the 'Pick' operating system. It has variable length fields and records. You can have 'multi-values' (multiple values) for any field. I worked for 5 years writing accounting and other software for Pick and found it easy to use to create 'vanilla' software (no graphics - no AI ). Revelation on the MS-DOS PC's seems like a good match although I did no more than look at a copy so I can only speak from my Pick background. If you have any specific questions, I'd be happy to try to answer them. --- voice= 415 823-2441 uucp={ihnp4,dual,qantel}!ptsfa!jmc >From robinson Tue Apr 1 11:55:34 1986 [robinson@ecsvax.UUCP] Revelation is purported to be a "lifting" of the Pick operating system and its built-in quasi-relational database. If it is anywhere near Pick in structure the answers to your questions are all yes. Example: record: Somebody^Frank^A^111 Crosstown Road^Thistown^ST^12345-9987^11/18/53 ^07/01/79^09876!25000!11/30/80\09876!28500!11/30/81\23456!32000!05/01/82 ^(901)345-2345^ The ^ differentiates fields the \ differentiates sub-fields and the ! separates segments. So, between the hiredate (start of 1st line) and the phone number are several "promotion history" sub-fields combined of a position number, salary and ending date. If properly defined in the data dictionary the value in each of these segments is available to the query language. Example: LIST PERS LNAME FNAME MINIT HIREDATE POSITION SALARY ENDDATE WHERE ENDATE < "01/01/82" SORT BY LNAME FNAME MINIT will bring up two rows on Mr. Somebody. For business applications there is not a better system than Pick (in my humble opinion). Depending upon Revelations adherence to Mr. Pick's database, it could be a very good system. Gerard Robinson UNC School of Medicine Cheers, Topher Eliot Cyb Systems, Austin, TX (512) 835-2266 {gatech,harvard,ihnp4,nbires,seismo,ucb-vax}!ut-sally!cyb-eng!topher ---------------------------response #3-------------------------------------- From root Tue Apr 22 16:11:23 1986 >From harvard.harvard.edu!harvard!seismo!ihnp4!ihdev!pdg Sun Apr 20 05:22:10 1986 remote from bbnccv Date: Fri, 18 Apr 86 19:25:02 EST Subject: Re: pick and unix Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories Someone else asked for a comparison between Pick and Unix a few weeks ago, and this was my reply. It should also answer your question about cohabitation on a disk. I have had considerable experience on both operating systems (6 years on Unix and 4 on Pick) and find your question very easy to answer. There really is *no* possible comparison. It simply depends on what your application is. Pick started off as simply the best idea I have seen in data bases but has evolved into something slightly more powerful - the word processor from Ultimate is very good! However Pick is quite limited (in a broad sense) as to what it can do. On UNIX I can safely say I can do *anything* that needs to be done software-wise (even if it means kernel mods), but on Pick, some things are just plain impossible, as the environment that Pick gives you does not allow it. I assume that because you are on a uucp network you are very probably on a Unix machine, so therefor would like to know more about Pick. Pick gives you a very nice user interface. Everything is a database command and every command (called verbs), program, directory etc are just parts of a large hierarchial (sort of) db that can be addressed at any level by defining pointers into it. Therefor everything is well organized and db functions (sorts, joins etc) can be applied to them. For every item (a member of a data base) there is also a dictionary entry which describes the attributes of the item on a simplistic level, but the dictionary can also be used to define pointers into other files, and therfore cross reference into other items, as a networked db can do. It is also possible to do joins of lists giving Pick a relational feature. As you can see, Pick has all of the good features of the different types of DB systems, but is not overly burdened with `creaping featurism' as is UNIX. As far as programming applications goes, Unix is much better, but Pick can still be used to produce very powerful systems in a very short time. The very nature of Pick's command syntax lets you access the file system through command files (which of course become verbs in their own right). For high level languages, the Pick I used only had Basic, nut the *best* basic I have ever used (which still doesn't say much) as it had no line numbers, word labels, structured features and full data base and operating system access. The word processor was also available from command files and could be used as a filter. One application I did in about two weeks was a combination of command files (procs) basic progs and wp documents to file the necessary papers for a law suit (in either district or justice court) for a credit bureau. It works like a charm and has increased the credit bureaus capability to collect on delinquent debtors manyfold. What I would like to see on a Pick system would be the addition of a MUMPS interpreter. MUMPS is perfectly suited to provide access to the file system and I feel is easier to work with, more flexible and powerful than BASIC, but this is off the subject. As far as security goes, Unix is bad, but Pick is atrocious. I could break into any Pick system in less than a minute, but a well administered system *could* be made secure. Just make sure you have an *experienced* person on hand. In general, if your application is purely data base and word processing I would highly recomment Pick over Unix, as the robustness and power of the built-in OS DB primitives makes developing a new application or modifying an old one simple. For anything outside this spectrum, I think you would find Pick overly limiting and tedious to work with. One final word, AT&T (No this isn't a plug - I'm a consultant anyway) has contracted someone (I don't remember who) to provide Pick as a layer over Unix. I don't exactly know how this would work, but if done well I think they could have a very powerful and exciting product. Prime Computer company also supports both Unix (Primix) and Pick(they have some fancy name for it I don't recall right now) but the two systems can not share files. They both run as layers over Primos. If you have any questions, give me a call at (312) 979-2014 or send mail to ihnp4!ihdev!pdg. Paul Guthrie `When the going gets weird, ihnp4!ihdev!pdg The weird turn pro' - H. Thompson ----------------------my own further research--------------------------- Since receiving these comments from the net, I looked more closely at the Pick/Unix relationship. Possibly someone else knows more about the AT&T/Pick agreement, but what I know is they are at it full tilt at Pickville. There is an agreement, license and every intention of having a legal Pick release including Unix Sys V as the main environment. Talk has it this will be available by the end of the year, but may be only on AT&T machines? Meanwhile, Vmark (as in Vertical marketing) does have a product called Universe that is Sys V and Pick on the same disk, within the same file system. They rewrote Pick utilities and kernel in C and claim not to have lifted the basic structure of the Pick programs, only their functionality. Pick isn't having any of this so is suing Vmark who is a group of Pick distributors who thought there would be a sizable number of Pick users wanting to have a taste of Unix along with their Picks. Universe currently runs on 3B[1,2,5,15], CTs, Pyramid. Talk of an NCR edition soon. It is actually a subdirectory under Unix and allows for file transfer between Unix and Pick. From what I gather from a short demo, they have done a good job on it and are a real boon for the Pick users. Do they actually offer much to the Unix person? That remains to be seen. Plus, will Vmark make it once Pick and AT&T have their product out? This too remains to be seen. Defintely the Pick/Unix convergence is here. The question now remains: is Pick really superior in development and usability to the Unix DBMSs on the market, notably Informix, Unify, Oracle. Does anyone have info re the database derby held by IBM last year? Was Pick included in the research? -- Len Jacobs East West Journal {harvard,seismo,ihnp4}!bbnccv!ewj01!lj