hcsjgh%ots.UUCP@rice.EDU (09/10/86)
>from: "Kurt L. Reisler" <klr%hadron.uucp@BRL.ARPA> >Any users of NCR Tower 1632 systems out there? >I am particulary interested in what kinds of problems I might >expect with UUCP and NEWS software. >Kurt >----------------------------- >>from: Sam Vause <vause%ncrcae.uucp@BRL.ARPA> >>Kurt underlines a good point in general. Most people are not really aware >>that the NCR plant that engineered the TOWER, added SYSTEM III, and ported >>SYSTEM V Unix to the TOWER family machines is on the net in a big way. We >>are a major force in the world Unix market, and are committed to support! >>----------------------------- The following reply is honest opinion based on my personal use of a Tower XP. As you said you were aware, the machine is slow, but is still useful if you have one. We have had numerous problems though. A lot of blown boards (which NCR has replaced *mostly* for free). We cut the air to about 85 degrees weekends, and the temperature variation might have caused some of it. Also, it is sensitive to power fluctuations even with surge protection. We have borrowed a standby power (interrupted) supply from NCR which helps a little, but it needs a uninterrupted power system if the environment is sub-standard (educated opinion). NCR version 2.00.00 of System V wasn't good to us, and so we got a free copy of 3.00.02 which corrected many problems. Sorry, no experience on other versions. UUCP seems acceptable. We did have to put the Hayes dialing info directly into the L.sys file instead of standard entries, which may be fixed, anyway, it works with the newer version. If you are going to spend cash American money on a new system, it is always WISE to shop around (opinion). Has anyone checked out the Convergent Technologies Mighty Frame ? I would appreciate users comments, but not from vendors or vendor support organizations PLEASE ! Loyalty sometimes alters objectiveness (opinion). Thanks, Greg Hackney S.W. Bell - Texas Network Engineering Support System ...ihnp4!tness1!root ...rice!ots!tness1!root -------------------------------------- If everything worked right, would we NEED so much commitment to support ??? -------------------------------------- -----< POST NO BILLS >----------
kahless@samira.UUCP (Lord Kahless) (09/13/86)
> >from: "Kurt L. Reisler" <klr%hadron.uucp@BRL.ARPA> > >Any users of NCR Tower 1632 systems out there? > >I am particulary interested in what kinds of problems I might > >expect with UUCP and NEWS software. > >Kurt > >----------------------------- > >from: Sam Vause <vause%ncrcae.uucp@BRL.ARPA> > >Kurt underlines a good point in general. Most people are not really aware > >that the NCR plant that engineered the TOWER, added SYSTEM III, and ported > >SYSTEM V Unix to the TOWER family machines is on the net in a big way. We > >are a major force in the world Unix market, and are committed to support! > >----------------------------- > >from: Greg Hackney <ihnp4!tness1!root> > The following reply is honest opinion based on my personal use > of a Tower XP. I felt I had to reply. > > We have had numerous problems though. A lot of blown boards > (which NCR has replaced *mostly* for free). We cut the air > to about 85 degrees weekends, and the temperature > variation might have caused some of it. Running the machine above 85 degrees? What? How much above 85 degrees? I know the specs say you can run to 40 centigrade, but ... > Also, it is sensitive to power fluctuations even with surge protection. > We have borrowed a standby power (interrupted) supply from NCR which > helps a little, but it needs a uninterrupted power system if > the environment is sub-standard (educated opinion). Let me tell you a little story. After the system had been up around 200 hours, something very weird happened in the middle of the night, just as I was trying to format floppies to back the system up. The floppy devices, then /etc/, then the utilities seemed to disappear out from under me. At around 1:00 a.m. our time, I called NCR's 800 number for system problems. Within half an hour, they had a person on the phone to help me determine what was wrong. Head crash. At around 9:00 a.m., NCR field service in Sacramento called me up. They replaced the disk, free of charge. Before you buy some other brand of UNIX micro, find out if they have a service and repair system that can match that. Yes, I'd say NCR is DEFINITELY committed to providing service. The field service guy said that transients in the lines do screw up the system. He recommended that I get a better surge protector than the one I had on the system, and said that a good surge protector usually eliminates the problems. I bought a Transtator Systems ACP100BLN from NCR for $200., and have had no hardware related problems since. That was over a year ago. By the way, the power in this office is often bad. At times, I can see the lights going dim and then bright. > NCR version 2.00.00 of System V wasn't good to us, and so we got > a free copy of 3.00.02 which corrected many problems. NCR's 2.00.XX has many bugs. The worst problem is in the optimizer in the C compiler. It takes around six hours to compile rogue optimized on this 1632 under release 2.0.1, but only twenty minutes unoptimized. I wish *I* could get a free copy of 3.00.2. > > UUCP seems acceptable. This tower was the first system I put uucp up on. I had some troubles, so I sent some people at NCR a mail message (from another site). They phoned *ME*, from Columbia, South Carolina, and showed me where I had gone wrong. UUCP was up in half an hour. Thank you Mike Wescott. Sam Vause sent me the sources to the news. Thank you Sam. It compiled without a hitch. I'd send the news stuff on SASF's (Self Addressed Stamped Floppies) to any other tower users interested. For those of you who who are considering getting a UNIX system that will not be maintained by a UNIX guru, I'd recommend that you really seriously consider looking at a Tower. The system adminisration menus might not look the hottest, but they are easy to understand and work perfectly. They make it trivial for a totally non-technical person to do some relatively complicated stuff, including mounting volumes, reconfiguring terminal and printer lines, etc. > > If you are going to spend cash American money on a new system, > it is always WISE to shop around (opinion). I'm sure you can get more bang for the buck than a tower, and if that's what you need, then get something faster. It's like comparing an IBM PC to some $900 Taiwan AT copy. Sure, the clone runs rings around the PC, for as long as it runs. When that clone has problems, you're up a creek. If you're going to want solid service and support, you're going to have to figure that into the price. By the way, I have no connection with NCR. I just program for a company that likes NCR equipment. > Greg Hackney > S.W. Bell - Texas Network Engineering Support System > ...ihnp4!tness1!root > ...rice!ots!tness1!root -- Kahless tai-Hazar {lll-crg,sdcsvax,ucbvax}!ucdavis!samira!kahless These views do not necessarily reflect those of The Imperial Propoganda Division, The Klingon Empire, or our Emperor.
sjm@dayton.UUCP (Steven J. McDowall) (09/14/86)
After hearing two case histories on NCR machines, I figured I might as well add mine too. Especially since we have the hottest new NCR around. (I BELIEVE the two other authors had expierence only with the 68000 Tower/XP or Tower/Mini). To wit: Our Tower/32 is a 68020 @ 16.7 MHZ (68881 FP optional whenever big M. makes it generally available - However, the C compiler already has support for it). 4 Meg. of memory (virtual demand paged OR ye olde swapping - depending on how you configure the kernel). It has 2 HPSIO boards (each HPSIO handles 8 Async. I/O and has it's own 68000 processor doing the normal canonical processing normally in the kernel). We also have a MPCA (Multi-protocal Communications Adapter) running SDLC (SNA) at 9.6KB. In one word: Its DARN fast. The only problem we had was a bug in the HPSIO device driver that occasionally caused a total system crash However, that was fixed in Release 1.02.00PE. It is *almost* a full System V.2 (its missing SXT devices and /etc/crash that I know of). It has battery backed-up memory (good for about 30 minutes at 4 Meg.) and uses SIGPWR to signal any programs that care about a power failure. (When power is restored, programs that have set SIGPWR to something will get signalled. VI uses this to automatically refresh the screen when power comes back up). To summerize: If you're looking at a nice developemental system, or a very fast end product with lots of I/O horsepower, then a Tower/32 may be for you. Note: And I don't even work for NCR! :-) -- Steven J. McDowall Dayton-Hudson Dept. Store. Co. UUCP: ihnp4!rosevax!dayton!sjm 700 on the Mall ATT: 1 612 375 2816 Mpls, Mn. 55408